Leaking banjo bolt washers

[keith]

Anybody ever have this problem? went to bleed the CCP front disk brake system I got from D-chuk's and the dang copper washers wont seal on the calipers. It seems the copper washers are defective, one side is machined flat, the other side is rounded severly (washer was stamped out on a press).

Every other brake system I have done has had machined washers (both sides machined flat for sealing). The brake hoses are laying and aligning on the caliper correctly. everything looks right, other than the copper washers.

Using good judgement, I really cranked down on the banjo bolt hopeing to smash the washers (2 per side) and get it to seal right. no dice, both sides are leaking. Took everything apart and eyeballed all the sealing surfaces and everything looks good, other than the washers. The washers are the right size, same for the banjo bolt. I looked at everything.

Going to make the rounds at the parts stores today and try to round up some more washers. Just thought I would throw this out there and see if anyone else has had this problem.

[Blackie]

I know a lot of guys have had to shorten or find shorter banjo bolts

[MikeKy55]

Bingo! Mine did the same thing. I went to Autozone with one in hand and found two slightly shorter.

[keith]

I made the mistake of going to the local ACE hardware superstore and fouind some there. slightly larger on the sealing surface and quite a bit thinner. little buggers were .98 cents apiece,,:eek:

Made a stop by the Baxters auto part store and found some washers the right size and price (.25 cents). should have went there first. Talked to the dude behind the counter and he mentioned that he had the same problem with a CCP kit he put on a camaro. Seems the copper washers are to hard and to thick, which dont allow them to crush properly.. The ones I picked up are about 1/2 the thickness of the kit ones and machined flat on both sides. Hopefully they will do the job.

[keith]

Well, I'm not impressed with the cpp front disk brake kit. Many fittment problems and plenty of leaks. It took using the impact gun on a medium setting to get the the banjo bolts tight enough to stop them from leaking.

finally got them to stop leaking.

[dseale4888]

It sounds as though they must be awfully hard copper. Most of the copper washers I've used are soft enough that you can bend with little effort. They should be soft so that they will conform to irregularities in the sealing surfaces.
Dave

[Sweden]

Hi Keith.

One trick i learn from an old guy is that you can use the Torch and heat up the copper washers before you mount them then they adjust to the surface.

[keith]

It sounds as though they must be awfully hard copper. Most of the copper washers I've used are soft enough that you can bend with little effort. They should be soft so that they will conform to irregularities in the sealing surfaces.
Dave

That's what I thought. All the sealing surfaces (hose/caliper/bolt) looked like they should. Little machined rings on the hose end and on the banjo bolt with no breaks in the rings, all surfaces parallel and flat. the caliper just had a flat surface with no rings, still you would think that the washer would crush enough to seal.

I dunno,,just glad it stopped seeping.


Thanks for the tip Owe, I'll file that one away for future.

[1957Belair]

Keith-

Sounds like you fixed the problem. Mine was similar.... I start bleeding and the fluid is running out like I forgot to tighten the banjo bolt. I looked at it, took all apart, and finally called CPP. They played dumb. What killed me was that I had planned on taking the car out that night and ended up going nowhere. A buddy of mine works for a local Caddy dealer here in LI and he said the washers were probably too thin. He picked me up a set from GM and there is quite a difference in thickness. Put them in, without having to wrench the banjo bolts down like crazy and no more leaking....been good for the past couple of years.
Probably will not deal with CPP again as they had a bit of an attitude when I called for information telling me I must have screwed something up on install.

Anyway, glad to hear you're fixed.

[cpprep]

Good Morning,
I just wanted to drop a response in to answer some questions. This question is not very common but when it comes up there are a few questions we ask the customers to check. 1 is that there is not any kinda buildup of paint or other matter that would cause a unlevel mating surface. 2. Make sure there is not a imperfection in the casting of the caliper that would require lightly filing down (this is usally taken care of here at the factory). 3. Dont be afraid to torque the bolts down! Most people are afraid of tightening the banjo bolts down. Still be careful but tighten them down!

The copper washers we use are of the same manufacturer as the ones you find at your local auto parts stores.

Also if anyone has any questions when installing our kits or with any questions you have please feel free to send me an email or call us!
We are here to help!

Thanks,
Aaron @ Classic Performance
aaron@classicperform.com
www.classicperform.com
800-522-5004 Ext 108

[straycat]

Same problem I have been fighting for 3 weeks now, very frustrating when it takes longer to correct a leak problem than it did to mount all 4 corners! Not real happy, I shouldn't have to spend my time and energy chasing parts for a kit that should of had it all figure out before marketing them. Who pays me for my troubles and labor? Not the customer and not the manufacture or shipper, I eat it. It's a safety issue people! Lon
ps, don't get me started on the subject of shortning bango bolts, what a joke that is!
Thanks 4 the post Keith, your not alone but there is no comfort in knowing we are so many.

[keith]

Thanks for the response Aaron. I had the calipers/banjo bolts and hoses off checking them with a magnifying glass for imperfections or a possible flaw with none to be found. I also checked those items with a steel straight edge and small "T" guage to make sure everything was machined correct. Maybe the banjo bolt was deflecting/warping during the tightening phase, highly unlikely, but a possibility. The only thing I could see was that the kit washers were to thick which possibly wasn't allowing them to crush properly. I found some washers at the local parts store that were thinner than the ones supplied with the kit and that has seemingly helped the problem.


The banjo bolts are definitely tight now and the leaking problem has been resolved,,for the time being I hope.

[1957Belair]

Just wanted to follow-up on comments made on the recent posting.

1. There was no paint buildup or any other substance on the calipers....they were brand new from CPP.
2. There were no imperfections in the casting(s) - both sides leaked after installation.
3. With supplied CPP washers, both banjo bolts were torqued down as tight as possible...thought I was going to twist the heads off.

Thickness of General Motors copper washers almost double the thickness of washers supplied in kit. Once these washers were installed, doing nothing else other than replacing the washers, no more leaks.

Sounds like, from the original posting, that this might be more of a "common" problem than one thinks.

[Belairmark]

Just wanted to follow-up on comments made on the recent posting.

1. There was no paint buildup or any other substance on the calipers....they were brand new from CPP.
2. There were no imperfections in the casting(s) - both sides leaked after installation.
3. With supplied CPP washers, both banjo bolts were torqued down as tight as possible...thought I was going to twist the heads off.

Thickness of General Motors copper washers almost double the thickness of washers supplied in kit. Once these washers were installed, doing nothing else other than replacing the washers, no more leaks.

Sounds like, from the original posting, that this might be more of a "common" problem than one thinks.

Could you use Dowty washers? These have a seal in side so they don't need doing up soooo tight!

[keith]

Could you use Dowty washers? These have a seal in side so they don't need doing up soooo tight!

I found some of those also, but I didn't think they could withstand the line pressure or heat or brake fluid. I should clarify that. What I found was a thick rubber coated alum washer (rubber bonded to one side). Not sure if thats called a Dowty washer.

[Belairmark]

Dowty washers are made for hydraulic systems, I used to use then in the aerospace industry and the military use them! Should be fine with the pressure and temp, it's the fliuid I was unsure about.

Rubber coated washers, they are not. They are available with internal or external seals.