Cpp500 box and cpp shortened stock style column kit

[Typhoontx]

Aaron,

I'm installing a powersteering conversion using a cpp500 box, and the cpp shortened non tilt stock column with auto transmission column shift.

When every thing is installed the end of the column butts up against the top of the rag joint and I even cut slots in the firewall bracket plate to clear the screw heads on the end of the column so the column is recessed back as far as possible.

This makes it impossible for the shifter tube to move out the bottom end of the column when you pull back on the shifter handle.

I bought the 500 box a while back when cpp had special sale that included the rag joint.

Is it possible there is a shorter over all length rag joint ? the one supplied is 2.77" overall length

Thanks, Robert

[56Mark]

I know exactly what you are dealing with. I have been installing mine the past couple of days. The column almost has to be pulled up in the firewall. I pulled mine up about another 1/8" and cut notches in the plate that goes inside the firewall. I ended up notching the plate more than shown in the picture. I made a little box to cover the notches in the plate. I also ground off about 1/16" to 1/8" off of the rag joint. A 1/4" shorter rag joint would sure make it a lot easier. I finally have my column in and shifting well. I can take a pic of it if you want.

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt115/markcollette/56%20Chevy%20Pictures/56%20Chevy%20Steering%20Column/Column%20Mods/DSCN3214.jpg

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt115/markcollette/56%20Chevy%20Pictures/56%20Chevy%20Steering%20Column/Column%20Mods/DSCN3216.jpg

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt115/markcollette/56%20Chevy%20Pictures/56%20Chevy%20Steering%20Column/Column%20Mods/DSCN3224.jpg

[56Mark]

You can see where the shift tube rubs the rag joint when it extends out.

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt115/markcollette/56%20Chevy%20Pictures/56%20Chevy%20Steering%20Column/Column%20Mods/DSCN3225.jpg

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt115/markcollette/56%20Chevy%20Pictures/56%20Chevy%20Steering%20Column/Column%20Mods/DSCN3226.jpg

[Typhoontx]

Ive notched the plate similar to the way you did yours, I just got another rag joint my brother had laying around from a 80 malibu its nearly 1/4" shorter
and I could probably grind another 1/8" off the nose . the other thing im pondering is to remove the socket from the rag joint and just weld a flat piece to the end of the 3/4 " shaft and drill 2 holes in it and bolt it to the rag joint in place of the part with the socket that you slide the shaft end in to it.

Regards, Robert

[Old Buzzard]

that the folks that "design" these items fail to do a real test fit, B4 they start selling them.
I had the same problems w/ the unit I got from Dbl Nickle.
There's NO WAY you can shorten the column, pull the screws nearly inside the opening, then expect a mt installed flush to the floor to clear.
Not only was mine not bent correctly, it was flush to the floor, w/ the top side bolt sticking thru the firewall hole.
The reason for the weld between the holes: The holes weren't even CLOSE to being spaced correctly. [The floor is the original floor]
Here's a pic of what I did to mine.
http://www.trifive.com/photopostgallery/data/676/medium/Steer_column_install_002.jpg

[mickeywestsr]

Fantastic job Hoss.........

[classic gary]

the other thing im pondering is to remove the socket from the rag joint and just weld a flat piece to the end of the 3/4 " shaft and drill 2 holes in it and bolt it to the rag joint in place of the part with the socket that you slide the shaft end in to it.

Regards, Robert

Speedway Motors makes the "rag" joint you just described, but I don't know if the splines are the same.

[classic gary]

After all the things i've read about power steering installs, I'm going to just figure nothing fits and whatever parts I use are going to have to be "made to fit".
'Cause, universal / isn't,
custom made for / is not for what YOU are working on,
and bolt on / doesn't.

[Onemoretime]

Gary can I ever relate to your comment since I started my project this past week...


Gary wrote:
"After all the things i've read about power steering installs, I'm going to just figure nothing fits and whatever parts I use are going to have to be "made to fit".
'Cause, universal / isn't,
custom made for / is not for what YOU are working on,
and bolt on / doesn't. "

Doug

[Old Buzzard]

"the other thing im pondering is to remove the socket from the rag joint and just weld a flat piece to the end of the 3/4 " shaft and drill 2 holes in it and bolt it to the rag joint in place of the part with the socket that you slide the shaft end in to it."

My "kit" came. The "kit" included the shaft w/ the piece that bolts to the rag j, already welded on. I guess the "designer" got that part right, anyway.:rolleyes:

Here's a pic or the "kit" as received. Chopping it all off, and using a Borgeson joint, looks better by the minute! [We did that on the 500 install on my bud's 60 Impy.]
http://www.trifive.com/photopostgallery/data/676/medium/Short_column_0021.jpg

[TheHotrodHandyman]

After all the things i've read about power steering installs, I'm going to just figure nothing fits and whatever parts I use are going to have to be "made to fit".
'Cause, universal / isn't,
custom made for / is not for what YOU are working on,
and bolt on / doesn't.

If there is one thing I have learned with aftermarket/modified parts is they only get you close in most cases to a true "simply install" bolt on part.:anim_45: There are some manufacturers that get it real close but very few that get it 100% right.:hmmmm2:

-Bruce

[Mikes56]

So would finding a shorter rag joint solve the problem? I see you guys have found other ways around this. Or do i need to modify the column like you guys as well? I know the stock column needs to be shortened but even thats not working as intended.

This is one of my future upgrades and im following your posts to help with it.

[56Mark]

I think a rag joint that was about 1/4"-3/8" shorter would help a lot. Then if you modify your column with the Ecklers kit and instructions, where they say to cut a 2 1/4" section out of the column, only cut 1 7/8" - 2" out. That would alllow the column to stick out of the firewall another 1/4" which would probably be enough for the shifter detent to fit all on the outside. If I was doing it again, I would look for a shorter rag joint or modify the one I have. Also, I measured that I need to cut just under a 1/4" off of the steering shaft, so the shorter rag joint would have eliminated that cut too.

Another tip: If you buy a new steering shaft, remove the part number sticker that is near the bottom of it. The shaft will not pull out through the upper column bearing with that sticker on it (although it went in). I just messed up a bearing trying to pull the shaft up through it.:motz: I think I can fix it, but it sure didn't take hardly any force for it to come apart. And I just put it in new a few months ago.

[cpptech]

Good Morning Everyone,

Sorry for the late response the holiday and inventory has delayed things around here alittle!

As for the CPP new column shift inner and outer tube combination we make we have been selling this for sometime now and have also installed these on a few applications. We have had very good results with these. Although installation is tight since they need to be 3.5 inches shorter then a stock setup you are that much closer to the firewall with ths steering column.

As I look though some of the posted pictures I see here i have noticed the pictures show modified original columns. We have a kit for someone looking to re-use there stock setups that use a different bracket See the link:

http://www.classicperform.com/Store/1955_1970_Fullsize_Cars/53-400.htm

This setup allows for more clearance when using a stock column and modifying it.

As for the new columns here is a link for the info:

http://www.classicperform.com/Store/1955_1970_Fullsize_Cars/5556OSC-K.htm


With this new kit installed it can be a tight fit. If you are working with a car that has had fresh body mounts installed this distance can be even tighter. so there are a few factors that can effect this (the mounts being one of them)


As for modifying a rag joint, though we have not had to do this, I dont see a problem with removing a bit of the material to help.

As always please feel free to email us or call us. I'm here to help!

[Typhoontx]

The pictures posted were not of my install I am using the cpp column , cpp rag joint and a cpp 500 box, in other words all the parts I tried to use were sourced either directly or indirectly from cpp but even with the cpp modified column I had to cut the notches in the lower support plate to allow the lower screw heads to clear and the back of the detent bracket is up against the
firewall, note that in this picture the rag joint is a gm original from a 1980 malibu and its approx. 1/4" shorter than the one from cpp.

What needs to be done is to make the firewall plate with a recessed box so the only thing protruding on the engine side of the firewall is the solid shaft itself and the shifter lever and shorten up the tubes some.

Regards, Robert

[56Mark]

Another idea that might work would be to move the detent bracket to where it is centered at the 12:00 position. Then a piece would have to be made to rotate the position of the tang that goes in the dedent. I beleive there is enough clearance on top of the column that it might work.

Like Robert said, I think the plate with recessed "box" stamped into it would solve the problem. This whole job would be easy on a floor shift car.

[vesekiz]

I had the same problem when I got CPP 500 box and shortened steering column from Ecklers for my '55.
I live in Turkey, and it takes about 5 weeks to get parts from The USA ( Sometimes with a higher shipping cost than the part itself ). So, it seemed more practical and quicker to look for the shortest U joint on the market.
I found one for Caterpillar Loaders/dozers. It worked pretty well, except for insufficient spline mesh. I inserted a pin on column side, and drilled the box side to secure tightly with a caliper stud through it.
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee21/vesekiz/567/CppCat.jpg

[CJS57]

Is this situation a problem if you are not using a column shifter? I have a floor shift, and am hoping it is bolt in then?

[cpptech]

Here is an install article that might be of some help on this subject.

http://www.classicperform.com/tech_articles/PDF/57_column_install.pdf

We have never had to notch the firewall plate.

[Typhoontx]

Is this situation a problem if you are not using a column shifter? I have a floor shift, and am hoping it is bolt in then?

You shouldnt have a problem with a floor shift set up , what is the main problem I and others has is that the inner shift tube when you pull back on the colum shift handle to move it out of park the inner shift tube moves out the bottom end of the column about 1/4" or so and what happens is there is no gap for this to happen because the shift tube touches the end of the rag joint.

Regards, Robert

[cpptech]

Ok guys ,

Although with all the installs we have done and have never ran into this before, your thread here got us thinking. Take a look at the pictures, These would be an Idea for the car that is not allowing enough movement or space, These would be made as a "problem solver" and by no means replace the current stock but could be offered to those few that fight run into this problem. Again, with 1000's of kits on the market, these few pictured and mentioned here are the only times we have seen this.

Notice the height differance in the rag joint. Also, notive the flat spots in the inner steering shaft can be made londer to allow for trimming to get the steering wheel flush with the shifter bell.

Let me know what you guys think.

[56Mark]

Aaron,
I think that is a great idea. :tu That would have solved my problem. All of my parts came frome you (steering shaft, 500 box, column seal plate, and rag joint). My steering shaft needs about .240" cut off of it to put the steering wheel in the right place. I know you also sell the parts to modify the stock column, but I made mine and used the instructions from Ecklers.
http://www.classicchevy.com/assets/pdf/53-400.pdf?
There might need to be a special set of instructions for these new parts saying to make the overall column length about 27 3/4" instead of 27 1/4" to let a little bit of the coulmn stick out of the firewall. It would be nice if there was a way to determine if you are going to need the special parts before buying them and cutting the column (not sure how to do that).

I only cut about 1/16" off of the top of my rag joint to make room for it to shift, so my main problem was that the detent ended up inside and outside the firewall and I wanted to use the new clamp plate which interfered with the detent.

We (me and TonyG on here) were discussing this problem at work yesterday and have another possible solution as to where the detent falls. It would be pretty easy to move the detent up near the NSS inside and make a tang that bolts to a plate welded on the shift tube and cut a slot in the column tube for the tang to reach through. Then bolt the detent on like the NSS. Don't tell the boss what we were working on. :D

Thanks for being proactive and helping to create a solution for this!!!

[Rick_L]

Here is some food for thought on this subject.

When I first started reading these boards, one of the perennial questions was "can I install a big cap HEI distributor without moving the engine forward?" Answers varied. Some said yes. Others said no way. I personally had a 55 back in the old days that would have the standard size distributor cap hit the firewall and break rotors. No way on that car.

The main reason for this variation IMO is that your body can slide a long ways on the stock body mounts, both forward and back. Body all the way back, an HEI probably clears. Body all the way forward, the stock distributor might have little clearance. Throw in sagged engine and body mounts vs. fresh ones and you have more variables. Then throw in variations in firewall and other body dimensions and you have even more variables.

This same situation applies to the relationships between the firewall, column, and steering gear. My car with a CPP500, Flaming River column, and McGaughy rag joint re-used from a 605 install has the top of the column end sticking out of the firewall and the bottom set in from the firewall, with the body mounts pretty much centered and using the factory holes in the body and old trans mounts on the frame centered up. I have a floor shift so no big deal but I know a column shift would either barely clear or need some help.

So...., the point is you have a bit of leeway on the body mounts if you're starting at frame up - but some other help would be welcome in many instances, either because your car is already put together, or you have a situation where the original tolerances don't go your way.

Seems to me that short rag joints and other things that give you some latitude would be valuable tools for a lot of guys.

[557B210]

AAron.....Thanks for being proactive and helping to create a solution for this!!!:dito:

[cpptech]

OK guys,
We have an Idea, Please PM me if you are having this problem and would like to try these out. We would like to see someone here try these and share there experience! If you have the CPP setup and are having this issue please PM me and I can send you the steering shaft and the shortened rag joint!

[557B210]

OK guys,
We have an Idea, Please PM me if you are having this problem and would like to try these out. We would like to see someone here try these and share there experience! If you have the CPP setup and are having this issue please PM me and I can send you the steering shaft and the shortened rag joint!

AAron...Can't get any better than that....Thanks for your support :):tu

[TXRaceFan]

OK guys,
We have an Idea, Please PM me if you are having this problem and would like to try these out. We would like to see someone here try these and share there experience! If you have the CPP setup and are having this issue please PM me and I can send you the steering shaft and the shortened rag joint!

I guess I'd better get busy on mine while the offer is on the table. I've got a 500 box and a CPP replacement column I need to put on the car and was hoping I wouldn't have the problems everyone is describing.

[cpptech]

I guess I'd better get busy on mine while the offer is on the table. I've got a 500 box and a CPP replacement column I need to put on the car and was hoping I wouldn't have the problems everyone is describing.

I doubt you will but let me know!

[cpptech]

Good Morning Typhoontx,

Any news on how the sample set I sent you worked out? Can you post some pictures?

[Typhoontx]

I've recieved the parts but the weather and my work schedule hasnt permitted me to install them hopefully can get to it this weekend
I believe im going to have to shorten the 3/4" shaft if its the same length as
the one supplied with the column kit to reduce the gap between the top of the turn signal housing and the steering wheel adapter cover I have a bit over 1/4" gap showing and its causing the turn signal cancel to not work


Thanks, Robert

[Todd_J]

Aaron, I agree with the others, thanks for being proactive. I need your help with modifying the CPP supplied parts. I have the new CPP500, shortened column, steering shaft, and rag joint all purchased from CPP (see part numbers below). I installed the column and the bolts are hitting the firewall as others have described. There is no room between rag joint, column and steering box. Everything is as tight as possible. I also have about a 1/2" gap between the steering wheel and the shift housing. This gap cannot be closed by moving the column out as described in the CPP installation instructions since the bottom column bolts are hitting the firewall. I double checked the steering wheel kit and it is the correct kit. Everthing is slid on the column splines properly. I also have installed new body mounts and ensured the body was as far back on the frame as possible to make room for my HEI. So the body positioning on the body mounts is not the issue.

Please PM me with guidance on how to solve this issue. I really don't want to cut the firewall so modifying the shaft and rag joint lengths sound like the proper solution. Any instructions is appreciated. My car is a 1957 4door Bel Air.

Parts Ordered from CPP:
57OSCK 1957 Complete Kit (for Original Automatic Columns for 500 Series Power Steering)
CP50000 1955-57 500 Steering Box
NSS Neutral Safety Switch
5557RJCS Rag Joint

I am using steering wheel installation kit Grant 3162.

Thanks
Todd

[Typhoontx]

OK I had some time and weather this weekend to install the parts CPP sent to help with the clearance issue.

Here is a picture of the rag joints 19185

the one on the left is the shorty one cpp sent they also sent a shaft that had the 2 flats on the ends machined further up the shaft to give more adjustment there.
The middle one is a gm orginal from a 80 malibu
the right one is the one that came with the 500 box I bought from cpp
The overall measurements are
Short 2.35"
80 malibu 2.56"
Long 2.75"

Results:
The shorter rag joint helped over the 80 malibu rag joint but the firewall column support plate ( not the firewall itself ) still needed to be notched.
But, instead of having to notch for all 3 screw heads in the end of the column tube I probably can get by with just notching for the bottom screw head. Now the back of the shifter detent bracket is also no longer butted
up against the firewall.

I also trimmed 1/8" off the end of the 3/4" shaft. And can now adjust the shaft in and out to get the proper gap between the turn signal housing and the steering wheel bell cover.

Tip: before you start take the shaft and make sure its a slip fit all the way into the rag joint. My brother had to take a file to both the shaft and the inside corners of the coupler to get them to fit without becoming wedged tight.

Regards, Robert

[557B210]

Thanks for your your feed back Robert....I used a kit and made one for my '55....It came out fine....Was going to go the prefab route with my '57....But now I'm having second thoughts.

[cpptech]

When we setup this revised part to help some having a issue we DD'ed the shaft double the amount so the end user can shorten it as needed like typhoontx was writing. This allows you to shorten it as needed to get the steering wheel or steering wheel adapter flush to the column without having to machine the inner shaft yourself. Since we doubled the DD there is plenty of room for adjustment!

We now have these parts available, If you are having any issue we have these available for sale or if you are working with parts purchased from us feel free to email or call to work out an exchange.

[Typhoontx]

Cpp/Aaron,

You may want to include a note on the auto column kit both on your web page and in the box with the column to specify/remind buyers to buy the shorter rag joint. May I also offer a suggestion - have your manufacturer machine all the shafts with the flats further up, would save you from having to stock 2 shafts and save you some customer statisfaction not to mention the shipping !

Regards, And Thanks

Robert

[557B210]

Cpp/Aaron, You may want to include a note on the auto column kit both on your web page and in the box with the column to specify/remind buyers to buy the shorter rag joint. May I also offer a suggestion - have your manufacturer machine all the shafts with the flats further up, would save you from having to stock 2 shafts and save you some customer statisfaction not to mention the shipping !Regards, And Thanks
Robert


Good inputs Robert.....Hope they are listened to and incorporated.

[markm]

This tread is a must read for anyone thinking about adding PS to a car with column shift. Someonr could make a fortune if they designed a column that fit. All can do is suggest moving the body on frame. Theie steering box is a fine part but the rest is junk.

[Jim Cimarolli]

I am using the CPP 500 box with the shortened column kit also supplied by CPP. My question is: When I pull the shift lever toward me to pull the car out of park, is the steering shaft supposed to move in and out when you move the lever? Maybe I'm missing something, but that is the way mine works.

[557B210]

Jim.....The steering shaft itself is not supposed to move..Just the shift tube assy.....See link:http://www.trifive.com/garage/55%20Chevy%20Assembly%20Manual/7-3.gif

(Personally, I don't understand how it can move.)

[markm]

When I first installed mine when I pulled backthe shift tube came foward and bound up on rag joint. When I loosened things up and slid column down and retighned things the screw heads on tube caught the floor mount when I tighned bolts and sucked it back down, Ended up notching junk mount rather than sliding body on frame as suggested bu CPP. I alsp do not see how shaft can move unless shift tube is hitting rag joint and flexing it.

[Jim Cimarolli]

Pops, do you have one of these units?

[acardon]

Pops, do you have one of these units?

Jim, is your steering shaft bolted to the rag joint? The rag joint should keep the shaft from moving up or down. Notice the "Notes" at the bottom of this install instructions. .....http://www.classicperform.com/tech_articles/PDF/57_column_install.pdf

[Jim Cimarolli]

Don,

My shaft is pinned to the rag joint, with a roll pin. For some reason the rag joint is what is allowing my steering shaft to move up and down as I move the shift lever. I have to maintain a certain amount of gap between my turn signal collar and the steering wheel to be able to get the car out of park.

There is nothing to keep the steering shaft from moving up and down from what I can see. You have the rag joint on one end and the bearing in the turn signal housing with nothing to keep the shaft locked in place. ??

Thanks

[markm]

When you bolt or pin shaft to rag joint that should prevent up and down movement.

[Jim Cimarolli]

When you bolt or pin shaft to rag joint that should prevent up and down movement.

The rag joint itself will expand and contract up and back down, that is where I'm getting my movement. I was just curious if anyone else with the CPP shortened coulmn kit is having the same experience. My kit must have been one of the early ones because I had a tough time getting the shift collar to fit the new shift tube. At first it would not even go on. I had to work on that tube for hours getting it to fit.

[markm]

Mine fit like crap too and I bought it recently.

[Jim Cimarolli]

OK, figured out whats going on. I got one of my friends to sit in the car and pull toward himself with the gear shift lever with me under the car on my lift. The shift tube is pushing down on the top of the rag joint. That is whats causing the steering shaft to move in and out. The shorter rag joint that was mentioned in this thread might solve that issue.

My main complaint with this unit all along has been that I get a lot of steering wheel shake on a bumpy road. I have a customer that has an Ididit column in his '55 and that car does not have the wheel shake that mine has.

Unless I'm missing something, there is nothing holding that steering shaft in place with the CPP shortened column kit other than the rag joint. Without it pinned onto the end of the steering shaft, it will pull right out.

[Bamaboybwoody]

OK, figured out whats going on. I got one of my friends to sit in the car and pull toward himself with the gear shift lever with me under the car on my lift. The shift tube is pushing down on the top of the rag joint. That is whats causing the steering shaft to move in and out. The shorter rag joint that was mentioned in this thread might solve that issue.

My main complaint with this unit all along has been that I get a lot of steering wheel shake on a bumpy road. I have a customer that has an Ididit column in his '55 and that car does not have the wheel shake that mine has.

Unless I'm missing something, there is nothing holding that steering shaft in place with the CPP shortened column kit other than the rag joint. Without it pinned onto the end of the steering shaft, it will pull right out.

It is supposed to have a roll pin holding the shaft end to the rag joint.

Joebowtie-trifive

[Jim Cimarolli]

It is supposed to have a roll pin holding the shaft end to the rag joint.

Joebowtie-trifive

It does Joe, re-read the last paragraph in my post.

[557B210]

Pops, do you have one of these units?

Jim....I personally don't have the CPP unit....However, I have a column that I modified myself using a kit from CCI http://www.classicchevy.com/chevy-steering-column-conversion-kit-for-column-shift-605-670-or-delphi-power-steering-box-1955-1957.html that works on the same concept.

[Bamaboybwoody]

It does Joe, re-read the last paragraph in my post.

Sorry mis-read.

Joebowtie-trifive

[557B210]

Jim....Here are some photos of my lower column outside the firewall.....The first shows a bushing I put in to take up the space between the steering shaft and shift tube....I also put in a light weight spring to keep the bushing in place....The second shows the shift tube and shaft with the gear shift lever pulled back.

If I'm comparing apples to oranges here, let me know.....So, I can bow out.


http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e385/55B210/101_3241.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e385/55B210/101_3242.jpg

[557B210]

Jim....After my last post, I started at the beginning of this post and reviewed it again....This photo shows the lower end of a CPP column....I see what looks like a big gap between the shaft and column that looks as if it could benefit from a bushing like what I installed on mine.....However, you may not have the room for it.

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt115/markcollette/56%20Chevy%20Pictures/56%20Chevy%20Steering%20Column/Column%20Mods/DSCN3226.jpg

[markm]

OK, figured out whats going on. I got one of my friends to sit in the car and pull toward himself with the gear shift lever with me under the car on my lift. The shift tube is pushing down on the top of the rag joint. That is whats causing the steering shaft to move in and out. The shorter rag joint that was mentioned in this thread might solve that issue.

My main complaint with this unit all along has been that I get a lot of steering wheel shake on a bumpy road. I have a customer that has an Ididit column in his '55 and that car does not have the wheel shake that mine has.

Unless I'm missing something, there is nothing holding that steering shaft in place with the CPP shortened column kit other than the rag joint. Without it pinned onto the end of the steering shaft, it will pull right out.

This is exactly the problem I discribed a couple post ago, CPP fix was move the body back on frame, I chose to shorten my 92 Chevt S10 rag joint to about two inches instead. I used a 1/4 inch bolt and a lock nut to hold mine in place.

[Jim Cimarolli]

Hey Pop's,

Thankyou for the very detailed pictures and your response.
It looks like you have a stock column that has been shortened.
The pic you posted of the CPP set up shows that the rag joint is hitting the bottom of the shift tube, so if there was a bushing installed there, it would have to be inside the shift tube as not to decrease the distance that is already too small between the top of the rag joint and the bottom of the shift tube.

[bigdave R.I.P.]

I am going to go through this process soon too. I plan using a ididit column with the shift in the column. I noticed in this thread that there weren't any idiotic being used. Is ther a better chance I might avoid some this with that colum vs a stock and modifying? I need tilt because of my size so that is why I am going with idiot.
Looks like a headache for me for sure. I midget be calling on you guys to help with when the time comes:)

[Jim Cimarolli]

Dave,

My plan is to upgrade to the Ididit column too, but I am going to go for the non-tilt unit, because the tilt column for a '57 is longer than stock. Ididit says its 2 inches longer, but I have heard that it is as much as 3 1/2 inches longer. Good Luck.