Big Block 57 What Front springs to use ?

[Jerry Watkins]

Hey Guys ,a lot of you are installing Big Blocks in you're tri 5s what spring are you using up front? I'm putting a 454 in my 57 with a turbo 400 and a 871 Blower any recomendations on where I can get front springs for the added weight . I have installed 2 inch drop axles up front and would like to lower it a little more .I'm sure the the old Gals 6 cylinder springs are not up to it . Any advise would be appreciated Thanks in advance Jerry W.:cool

[56-210sedan]

Hey Guys ,a lot of you are installing Big Blocks in you're tri 5s what spring are you using up front? I'm putting a 454 in my 57 with a turbo 400 and a 871 Blower any recomendations on where I can get front springs for the added weight . I have installed 2 inch drop axles up front and would like to lower it a little more .I'm sure the the old Gals 6 cylinder springs are not up to it . Any advise would be appreciated Thanks in advance Jerry W.:cool

Jerry, here is a link to a thread from the modified trifive forum Big block Springs (http://www.trifive.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3792) Hopefully this will be of some help to you.

[r66ss]

jerry
Im running a 454/scattershield/m22 in my 55 , using new coil springs for a wagon, no problemshttp://pic17.picturetrail.com/VOL857/2990933/6053471/129711765.jpg

pic not quite showing front stance, but no problems in front, back up tad on account of air shocks.

[twolaneblacktop]

A BBC is only 80 pounds heavier than a small block!!! I have heard some people claim a 200 or 300 pound weight difference whick is no true!! Not to mention if you run aluminum heads, intake, or water pump, headers instead of cast iron exhaust manifolds and so many other light weight components the difference is very small. Just an aluminum radiator will take off I think at least 20 pounds!!! My 55' has a 454 with a 350 turbo and two coils cut off the origional 6 cylinder springs, havn't drove it since I cut the springs but the low stance is worth every bit of any rough ride it has!!! Trifive's 57' has a BBC and a 400 turbo with the origional non cut 6 cylinder springs and his car sit's great with plenty of suspension travel. The last time my car was driven was 3 1/2 years ago with the BBC and stock springs and rode and drove fine!!!

[Chevynut]

This has been debated in detail before, and I was the one arguing that the BBC wasn't that heavy. The difference is closer to 200 pounds for equally equipped engines. We used actual measured weights for the comparisons. I can try to post some details if interested.

I put a 427 in my 55 chevy 35 years ago and the headers dragged the pavement when I let off the gas rapidly. If it were me, I'd get a slightly stiffer spring (like a BBC Camaro) and cut it to achieve the desired ride height. It would be a trial and error process unless someone has already done it and can specify details.

BTW, 6 cylinder springs are heavier than V8 springs, since the 6 cylinders were heavier.

Besides, even 200 pounds is only 100 pounds per side. A stock spring has a spring rate of somewhere around 109 lb/in at the wheel, so another 100 pounds will drop the suspension about 1".

[Rick_L]

The original 6 cylinder engines weighed about 30 pounds more than a V8. And the original powerglides weighed 95 pounds more than a manual transmission.

If you have any lightweight components at all you are not seriously over the weight for a 6 cylinder Powerglide car.

And I think the "tired spring" deal is overplayed too. The other thing I have observed is that some of the replacement springs make the car sit too high no matter how it is equipped.

I would recommend you put the car together with stock springs and see what you think - then make a choice.

[MikeKy55]

I did what Rick suggested on mine. I ended up removing one coil later. Car rides and handles good as far as I'm concerned.

[Jerry Watkins]

Hey Guys I really appreciate the input ,I hadn't concidered the 6 weighing more than the v8 .I will use a aluminum radiator and headers .But I am using cast heads and a 871 blower .I believe after listining the best bet is as you've stated run with it and see what washes out before I change anything . Thanks again ,any other input I'm very glad to get Jerry W.

[twolaneblacktop]

If Chevynut is correct about the weight the scales we used was way off!!!! Took small block out of 67 camaro and installed a 427 bbc and weighed the car on the same scales the next spring and was only about 80 lbs difference!!! Just my luck I guess.....From small block to big block in my 55' with the same tranny dropped the front almost and inch, which was not enough for me any way!!

[Bad270]

Jerry
Heavy duty springs are available for the 6 cyl at Advanced Auto or Autozone-60 bucks a pair. I have them in my 56.
As Rick L. posted , it makes the car sit a little high in the front end.
I still have the 6 cyl in my car.

[Chevynut]

I went back to the prior discussion that I referred to and the actual difference is closer to 160-170 pounds. Here are some excerpts based on someone actually weighing two equally equipped engines, and GMPP published weights:

"On the weight thing....yep we have had this discusion before....my 383 weighs a full 160+lbs lighter than your 502. I weighed em this summer when my bud had one in the shop! "

"1. RamJet 502........697# complete engine, starter, ign, flexplate, intake carb

2. 502/502...........692# complete engine with starter, ign, flexplate, intake, carb

3. ZZ454.............657# Partial engine less carb, starter, ignition

4. ZZ383.............452# Partial engine less intake, carb, water pump, ignition and starter. Flexplate??

5. ZZ4...............414# Partial engine less carb and starter. (the SDPC pic shows a flexplate)

So based on the 502 compared to the 454, you can estimate that the carb, starter, and ignition weigh about 35 pounds. Based on the 383 and ZZ4, you can estimate that the intake, ignition and water pump weigh 38 pounds. So the total would be about 73 pounds (ignition is mousenuts ). The difference in the ZZ383 and the ZZ502 comparably equipped is 167 pounds if the above weights are reasonably accurate. So your 160 was pretty close. "

But this can vary greatly depennding on the exact engine combo and what accessories are used.

[BarnYarD Tri5]

Hey Guys, thought I tag onto this thread.

I too am in the process of dropping in a 454 BBC. Originally, I was going to go with 2" drop spindles in combination with 1" lowering springs for an overall drop of 3" up front.

Recently, I acquired a new set of 2" lowering springs for a SB V8, and am now thinking about using them with my stock spindles.

I'm hoping that using these springs with a BBC will result in ~1" additional drop giving me my desired 3" without the need for the drop spindles.

What do you all think?

Scot

[Chevynut]

I think that's going to cause alignment problems, because your suspension geometry will be all messed up. I don't think you'll have enough camber adjustment, because the upper a-arm will be too high on the outboard end. Plus, I think your suspension bumper would have to be eliminated. I don't think you can do a 3" drop with springs alone. I'd still go with the 2" dropped spindles and 1" dropped springs if I were you. I would go with a stiffer spring to keep the front end off the ground when it bounces. Cutting them down stiffens them.

Anyone else tried this?

[MikeKy55]

I dropped mine 2 inches with spring cuts and there isn't really enough room for 3 inches and not have bottoming out problems. Even with the snubbers removed.

[trifive]

Am I the only one that likes the car to set up off the ground . I grew up racing down backroads in NC, and if I had one of those lowered cars I would be wrecked somewhere because of hitting the bumps and dragging the pavement.

Tony over their at redline auto has threatened to put drop spindles on my 57 and I said No Way.

I like the 57 setting high like it was ment to be :)


Otis

[twolaneblacktop]

I cut two coils off my v-8 springs with a bbc and the ride is considerably better than I thought it would be...No bottoming out with a much smoother ride than I thought it would have, A bit stiffer than stock but not bouncie like I had planned on!!! Just guessing it is probably at least 4" lower than stock with enough adjustment in the a-arms for good alignment!!!( I think) Hopefully I can post some pic's this weekend and let you see the ride height and get opinion's on the new paint job, Has anyone see a black and pearl orange 55' chevy, It's different but that's what I went for....nothing worst than going to a show or cruise and seeing your car's twin...I think i'll be safe. Don't worry Otis, once you see my car slammed on the ground you'll be begging me to do your's the exact same way....Some guy asked what happen's to old Chevy's whne they die...The answer is old chevy's never die..... they just go faster!!!!

[Rick_L]

Chevynut, dropping the front end with short springs or weak springs will improve the camber adjustment, since the upper control arm will be closer to horizontal. This will require you to add shims, which is a good thing. Most cars run out of shims, especially when trying to add caster.

Dropping the car with springs also improves the camber gain curve, meaning your tires stay flatter to the ground when cornering.

Bottoming out is the only real problem.

[BarnYarD Tri5]

Thanks for all the help guys.

Sounds like I shouldnt rule out using the drop spindles & springs. Since I'm dropping in a big block maybe I should check around for some 1" lowering springs for a wagon or 6cyl.

If just using stock spindles and 2" lowering springs with a Big block, do you truly think I'd have bottoming out problems? Sure want to stay away from that.

Would I gain anything (in terms of geometry) by using tubular A-arms?

[Chevynut]

Chevynut, dropping the front end with short springs or weak springs will improve the camber adjustment, since the upper control arm will be closer to horizontal. This will require you to add shims, which is a good thing. Most cars run out of shims, especially when trying to add caster.

Dropping the car with springs also improves the camber gain curve, meaning your tires stay flatter to the ground when cornering.

Bottoming out is the only real problem.

Thanks for the correction. I had forgotten that the upper a-arms were pointing down at the outside at ride height on these cars. My C4 front end is opposite....the ball joint is higher than the shaft at ride height.

Still, I don't think you should try to drop the car 3-4" with only a spring chop, do you? The upper a-arm will be way high at the outer end and it doesn't seem like there's much room for suspension travel. But I have never tried it either!!! :eek: I guess the proof is in the puddin'.

[57 sedan delivery]

Am I the only one that likes the car to set up off the ground . I grew up racing down backroads in NC, and if I had one of those lowered cars I would be wrecked somewhere because of hitting the bumps and dragging the pavement. I like the 57 setting high like it was ment to be :)
Otis

Add me to that list because if I dropped mine I couldn't get down the road to my house, that is why the wife's import car has lost all it's plastic cover panels under the engine.:eek: I used the stock 6 cyl springs when I put in the 454 back in '81, of course by now they and the rears are sagging quite a bit after 50 years of use so new ones will go in on this rebuild.

[55delray]

A BBC is only 80 pounds heavier than a small block!!! I have heard some people claim a 200 or 300 pound weight difference whick is no true!! Not to mention if you run aluminum heads, intake, or water pump, headers instead of cast iron exhaust manifolds and so many other light weight components the difference is very small. Just an aluminum radiator will take off I think at least 20 pounds!!! My 55' has a 454 with a 350 turbo and two coils cut off the origional 6 cylinder springs, havn't drove it since I cut the springs but the low stance is worth every bit of any rough ride it has!!! Trifive's 57' has a BBC and a 400 turbo with the origional non cut 6 cylinder springs and his car sit's great with plenty of suspension travel. The last time my car was driven was 3 1/2 years ago with the BBC and stock springs and rode and drove fine!!!
i weighed my stock radiator with no coolant and it only weighs 20 lbs. so are you saying an aluminum one weighs nothing?

[twolaneblacktop]

yes 55delray I am saying that aluminum weighs next to nothing when it's compared to an old stock 55' radiator!!!! A stock 55' radiator wouldn't even begin to cool the BBC in my 55'... the over sized aluminum race radiator has a hard enough time keeping it cool!!! So to answer your question the answer is yes, throw that stock radiator away and buy yourself an aluminum one!!! Sorry if I sound rude with my answer but I saved at least 20 pounds because the radiator I did have was a huge stock one out of a work van that I wrecked and had to swap it out for the aluminum one because it wouldn't keep it cool!!!