View Full Version : Engine Heat, should I be concerned...Part 2?
09-18-2010, 09:55 PM
Last weekend I changed out the oil and went Mobil 1 15w50 synthetic and it actually seemed that the engine temp increase a bit.
Well tonight I finally finished my Vintage Air AC install(talk about scope creep, I thought it would take me at most one weekend, not even close) and started charging the system. Well after the engine running at 2000 RPM to keep it idling(high compression engine) with the compressor on and the temp hit 220(didn't know it as my wife was gassing it and I had her cut the engine because of the smoke that was bellowing off one of the headers...apparently one of the chrome supports for the spark plug wires was resting on the header...not a good thing). I have a large aluminum radiator, fan shroud, 6 blade induction fan and just changed the radiator fluid(as part of the AC install) two weeks ago. After it turned off the temp climbed to 230 before it flat lined there.
Not sure what to do here, should 10 minutes of standing at 2000 RPM get the engine that hot that fast? Any and all help/suggestions are appreciated.
09-18-2010, 10:05 PM
Dang that's too hot to me Hanx.....Sounds like you got all the right stuff.....Maybe water pump or thermostat :confused0006: Check out Stewart water pump site tech tips and FAQ..See link:http://www.stewartcomponents.com/
09-18-2010, 11:37 PM
:eek: thats hot
sounds like your not gettn enough air flow idling even with big a radiator . fan and shroud :confused0006:
09-18-2010, 11:43 PM
Thats pretty toasty.
2000 rpm just to idle?? and how much compression??
09-19-2010, 11:49 AM
Well I wouldn't say it needs 2000 RPMs to idle, it typically will idle fine around 750-1000RPM but once the compressor clutch kicked in while charging, it stalled the engine so I had the wife keep it at 2000 RPMs so I could charge the AC unit. As for the compression its a bored out 350 and is just under 10-1 I believe.
Should I look at a bigger fan possibly and different shroud? Any fan recommendations that yield the highest CFM/RPMs especially at idle speeds? The car does fine at cruising speeds 40+ MPH, it is just at the low end where heat is the issue.
09-20-2010, 01:09 AM
I don't know your cooling system, but it seems sufficent by what you posted that it should do the job.
Your idle tune is correct??,,that sounds kinda crazy, but it is a question that begs to be asked.
The coolant was just changed, any possibility of a air bubble??. heater core valve was opened up after the refill??
just tossing some ideas out there,,maybe generate some more from other folks.
09-20-2010, 10:51 AM
Thanks for the reply and to be completely honest I am a total noobie. This is my first classic, decided I wanted to sell my daily driver and by a tri five...something I have always wanted, and I bought it a few months back in its current state...not perfect but not a beater either.
So to answer your questions, no I am not sure the idle tune is correct, it is whatever the guy I bought it from set it at. I do know that based on another issue I am experiencing and the responses I got(after the engine is warm it wont start unless I floor it) this is an issue with flooding and I was advised to check the floats in the Edilbroks. So i suppose the idle tune could be off as well.
And as for the coolant that is definitly a possibility, honestly I didn't know I needed to open up the heater core valve after filling(or where it is even located honestly....just installed a Vintage Air system and don't recall seeing any heater core valve).
09-20-2010, 11:47 AM
You typed "Edelbrocks",,so I take it you have dual carbs. Personally I would pull those off and just install a dual plane manifold and single carb. Those Edelbrocks can be very finiky and it takes a savvy tuning hand to get them right. Not trying to spend your money, just something to think about for the future. Your mileage should increase and be easier to learn to tune.
Is it throwing water out into the radiator overflow tank?. you might be fine so long as it is not pushing out alot of water/coolant. water/coolant level should be about 1-2" below the fill neck. 220° is hot, but not deadly. your synthetic oil that you switched to is a good one for that constant heat. You add about 10-20° to your engine temp, and that gives you a general idea on oil temp.
The control for the heater core valve is on the dash I believe, its the slider lever marked hot or cold, that is if you have the deluxe heater. That system should have purged itself out by now,,just another idea to check that I thought I would throw out there.
No worries about selling your daily driver, this is a learning experience with these classics, a test of will power sometimes. Once the little issues are worked out, they are a blast to drive.
09-20-2010, 12:28 PM
You are correct, it has 2x4 carbs and sucks down the gas like no tomorrow(I get about 8 MPGs and this was before the addition of AC :) ). I do enjoy the horsepower but was concerned when buying it with the dual carbs as I have had experience in my younger years with a dual carb system and always having to mess with the linkage, etc. to get it running right. At this point in time $$ is tight so that isn't an option, maybe down the road.
As for throwing water, so far it hasn't thrown any believe it or not.
LOL, OK so you just ment to cycle the heater on...again yes I am a newbie so bear with me. I did that yesterday for the first time since I finally got all the electrical hooked up on the VA system.
One additional note, when I was charging the system yesterday, I pulled it out of the garage(the garage has no circulation so maybe part of my prior issue) and put two house fans in front of the radiator and the system stayed between 160-190 so I am thinking maybe if I throw a couple of small electric push fans in front of the condenser(one on each side of the hood latch support....no room between the support and condenser to put anything) that my idle heat problems would go away....it definitely seems air flow related.
I hear you on the test of will power....this Vintage Air system has been a royal pain(wrong parts shipped, missing parts, holes not drilled in the proper location, etc.) and took way longer than I anticipated but I will say it was certainly nice this morning driving to work with some ice cold air blowing on my face. And I love driving the car, I couldn't imagine going back to a newer vehicle now!
09-20-2010, 01:40 PM
Sounds like a couple of electric pushers should help, it's worth a try in the future, but for now just drive it, let that system break in and take mental notes as you put some mileage on it. keep a hawk eye on things for the immediate.
Check the color on a new set of installed spark plugs (new plugs, take it for a drive, pull a plug and look). you want a light tan to chocolate brown color. Clean white frosty plugs are to lean,,,black sooty is to rich. Being to lean or to rich could cause high temps, there is a sweet spot there. With those high Texas temps and Edelbrock duals, I would think to rich, the proof is in the plug.
Alot of folks like the Spal fans, but do some research for your application, (dimentions, mounting options, max cfm@volts, ect.). I would reccommend not zip tying them thru the cores, buy the brackets or bracketed unit if availible. Again, not trying to spend your money, but you learn these things by doing,,:rolleyes:.
As with anything there will probably be some fabbing required, as you found out with the A/C.
03-11-2011, 12:58 PM
Well I haven't changed anything yet and it had been running fine through the winter(running on the cool side which I guess is to be expected) but we had a highway closure last week and during the drive home, which took almost 3 hours, I had to pull over and let the engine cool twice because I was hitting 215 and rising on the temp guage. It was only in the 50s outside so is this typical behaviour since I was sitting idle for so long or should I be concerned and what recommendation if any do you guys have? Same as above?
03-11-2011, 01:04 PM
Check the lower radiator hose to make sure it is not collapsing too.
03-11-2011, 01:08 PM
What would cause it to collapse?
03-11-2011, 01:17 PM
First of all I would check to make sure the engine is really getting as hot as the gauge says it is. Can you install another gauge or check the gauge out by putting it in hot water with a thermometer in it?
Next, I don't understand why it would take 2000 RPM to idle with just the A/C on. In fact, the idle speed should not increase with A/C. It should run at the same speed, only with more load. But that's not your problem. High compression shouldn't affect the idle either. My diesel has much higher compression than any gas engine and it idles fine well below 1000 RPM. Do you have a radical cam in the engine? That would affect idle more than compression.
I wonder if you're running too lean at idle since you have 2x4 carbs. Have you checked for vacuum leaks?
It sounds like the engine cools just fine at highway speeds, but not at low speeds. That indicates a lack of airflow through the radiator. Do you have the shroud correctly placed around your mechanical fan? Have you considered an electric puller fan?
I don't think the hose is collapsing at such low RPM. IMO that would be a problem on the highway, not at low speeds.
03-12-2011, 01:34 AM
What would cause it to collapse?
If it gets old I guess the water pump can suck them flat trying to pump the coolant through if it's weak. Then that restricts the coolant flow.
Running for 10 minutes at 2000 RPM standing still would probably overheat my engine too though and my lower hose is OK.
It's just something else to check. I think if you can squeeze it flat with your hand it's probably too weak.
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