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BlueFlameRunner235's 1957 4 door 210 old school build

7K views 65 replies 16 participants last post by  BlueFlameRunner235 
#1 · (Edited)
Hey all, this is my first post here so I apologize if I make any goofs. Right so the 57 in question is my 4 door 210 that I'm planing on doing at first a good old school racer/cruiser that I can build out to higher levels when time/funds/and needs/wants permit.

I got the car down in Lansing a few months back and have been daily driving it to and from work (35 mile round trip) without much complaint. The original 235 does very well as a regular driver and gets decent milage with the three on the tree (I'm getting 16 to 17mpg), it has plenty of get up and go but sadly does need to be gone through as the lifters start clattering loudly if it's under to much load like climbing a decent hill or going to fast. Being original doesn't help ether as I have to run lead additive as well which has already gotten annoying. Luckily for me the previous owner put fresh tires on it, had the front suspension gone through with fresh bushings and shocks, along with new leaf springs and shocks at the back giving it a nice little stance, he also had a.dual master cylinder installed with a disc brake conversion on the front along with fresh brakes at the back.

Now note I dont plan on getting rid of the three speed and 235 as I'm going to save them for another project. But for now the first plan of action is to get the 235 squared away with a new remanufactured head with hardened valve seats (gonna keep the original as a spare), a new set of push rods (two are bent from what I can see), a new rocker oil tube (someone did the old school trick of crushing the line), give the lifters a good clean up, and the corresponding gaskets to get the job done.

Once the blue flame is all set and happier the next step is to track down a good four speed I can bolt in for some better drivability, after that I'll just be gathering the bits I need to swap in the 1957 Corvette 283 I picked up at the first show I attended.

Now onto the 283, the guy I got it from bought it freshly rebuilt back in the 80s for his 2 Dr Bel air but sadly sold the car before swapping it in. He was also kind enough to give me (yes for free 99) the left over parts he had of which was a perfect 57 V8 rad with trans cooler for a power glide, a basically new generator with the power steering pump shaft, a set of vent windows, a complete new in box gasket set for a power glide, a few trans oil pan gaskets, and a box of tid bits he had. Also when I bought the 283 I also bought the two four barrel carbs he has, one is in need of a rebuild as it's crusted up while the other is more or less a brand new remanufactured carb from Nappa back in the day (the carb in the pics with two vent tubes is the nice new one).

By looking at it I'm going to guess it's a base model Corvette 283 as it doesn't have power pack heads but has the four barrel intake, so by knowing that and guessing it has the standard cam in it I'd have to guess that it's in the 185-195hp range. It also has the original front mount motor mounts so swapping it in shouldn't be to difficult. I'm planning to build it out to that of the stats the 270hp 283's they ran in NASCAR and what not back in the day with power pack heads, a good duntov cam, ect...

Now back to the car itself, currently I'm waiting to get it in the shop to get some deer damage sorted (hopefully this week and it's not bad, was only doing 45) and possibly getting it painted as well if the funds allow. Once this is done with them the real fun shall begin!


Now real quick I figured I should go over all in all what I plan on accomplishing with this build. My hope is to build it like that of a classic dirt track/oval track racer of the late 50's and 60's in terms of performance and appearance, but at the same time I want it to be a good reliable driver that I can drive daily and where ever such as to events and what not. I also want it to perform well enough so I can take it to whatever event I feel like (such as the drags, rally's, auto cross, ect.) and have fun without slowing anyone up. More or less something that's not crazy competitive but surprises them a bit and can be made more competitive later on.

Thanks for putting up with me for so long lol and I'm glad to be a part of this great community! :):wavey:
 

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#4 ·
Here's a few other pics I have, the sad to see deer damage and the paint job I'm going for (made on forza horizon 3). I'll get some more pics of the car put up tomorrow when I can.

For those wondering that hot wheels (I actually have it) is what gave me the inspiration for the paint job, and for those wondering why this 57 looks familiar is because it was featured on barn finds back in January.
 

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#11 ·
After learning the three speed I don't think I ever want to go back to an automatic, grabbing gears is addictive :sign0020:

Don’t replace that rocker oil tube. That’s a restriction built in to maintain oil pressure. Believe it or not, they came from the factory that way. If you put an uncrimped tube on it, the oil pressure to the rest of the engine will plummet.
Huh, from what i read on the 235 it was simply an old trick to get a few more pounds out of it. Thanks for letting me know :)
 
#10 ·
Don’t replace that rocker oil tube. That’s a restriction built in to maintain oil pressure. Believe it or not, they came from the factory that way. If you put an uncrimped tube on it, the oil pressure to the rest of the engine will plummet.


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#15 ·
Don’t replace that rocker oil tube. That’s a restriction built in to maintain oil pressure. Believe it or not, they came from the factory that way. If you put an uncrimped tube on it, the oil pressure to the rest of the engine will plummet.
Is this what you're talking about?
You'll enjoy working on that fine 57. Sorry about the deer damage!
 

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#13 ·
I have almost the identical car. 4 door 210. Mine is highland green/surf green. My heater is very different than yours, as is my air cleaner. I think I have the hd oil bath version. Also, I have the wonderful vacuum wipers. Fun when accelerating in the rain.


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#16 · (Edited)
Welcome! If the motor is a real 57 motor, the oil tube was a looped affair. Very common to crimp it off. Leave it alone, its not hurting anything and may in fact be helping.

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I apologize for the orientation here. Don't know why that happens. The version to the far right is the looped 55-58 tube. Moving from right to left, the next on over is a 55-58 that was cut and crimped somewhere along the line. The next two are for the later 59-62 motors. They came crimped from the factory because of a change in the oiling system which was GMs attempt to create a sort of pressizurized system, including an enlarging of the feed oraface in the head, crimping of the tube, an internal change to the rocker arms, and a change in oil supply from the rear cam bearing to a dedicated passage from the main oil galley.


Oil to the rockers in a 55-58 235 originates from the rear main cam bearing using a steel tube that runs under the side cover. This tube can get clogged over the years from dirt and build up which reduces the oil flow to the rockers. If the motor is a little worn, even if the tube is in good clear shape, just the extra clearance at the cam bearing will bleed off pressure. So, I would leave the crimped rocker alone, pull the side cover, clear the steel line. Then, pull the valve cover and make sure each of the rockers has oil dribbling (not spitting, just dribbling) out of the spit hole of each rocker arm. If you do, you are good. Push rods, use replacements (sealed power or trw). The replacements are tube style, the originals are solid. The originals tend to bend easier then the tube style.

Hard seats on the head, I have done them but no longer do. The reason? Some of the head castings are thin in that area. If you hit water (like I did one time) the head is junk. I run my motors pretty hard, no hard seats. Just asking here, but is there a specific reason you are rebuilding the head? Oil, smoke, lack of compression exiting through the valve seats?
 
#17 ·
Yep. I have had two of those very expensive, very heavy heads turned into boat anchors by machine shops breaching the water jackets. Still, the 235 is my favorite engine. The will purr when you get everything right and run forever.


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#20 · (Edited)
Na, not lines (as in plural) just one small diameter steel line (same size as a brake line) under the side cover. When you take the cover off, this will make perfect sense. You do not need to add a lead additive. Believe me, I run the snot out of mine and have for years and years. Unleaded. In fact, The motor I took out and is sitting in the back of my garage ran for many many years on unleaded, raced for many many years also, on unleaded only. You will be fine without hard seats and not worth the risk in my humble opinion.
 
#21 ·
Huh, I was taught that running an old engine without lead additive would burn up the soft valve seats. Well thn I guess I'll save myself the money and just get a set of push rods and clean out that oil line this winter. Now to hunt down a 4 speed that'll work well with the 283 that I can just swap/bolt in place of the 3 speed without trimming the driveshaft.
 
#22 ·
A Saginaw 4 speed will bolt right in....and is a GREAT tranny

JUST DO NOT abuse it,and it will EASILY last as long as your 235 !!!

Best part is they are CHEAP still......have quite a few 1st gear ratios....AND use a 1980 monte carlo shifter,and you don't have to worry about shifter handle clearance by your front seat

find a Muncie or Super T-10 for behind that 283.... they will take some abuse
 
#23 · (Edited)
The first gear ratio for a stock three speed is like 2:93 or thereabouts. So you will loose first gear multiplication if you use a transmission that has a first gear ratio less then 2:94. Like the 235, 261 6 motors, a small 283 motor makes good use of the 2:93 first gear which is what gets you up and going from a stop and is really fun driving around town. The closest three candidates in an old school four speed are the Muncie M-22Z, a Borg Warner ST-10 and the venerable Saginaw four speed.

The Muncie M-22Z is not actually a factory transmission but an after-market set of M-22 "straight-cut" style gears that can be retro fitted into the Muncie 21, 22 and 23. Has a 2:94 first gear which is the closest first gear to stock. You get the M-22 whine using that set so that may be something to take into consideration. I don't know the exact figures but I think it can be done for $1800 or thereabouts using a stock factory Muncie case, or in the neighborhood of 2300-2500 for an all new Muncie M-22Z. All other Muncie gear rations are less then the stock three speed gear ration (2:54 might be the highest numerically in a stock gear set).

The BW ST-10 is next using the 2:88 first gear version. Very good transmission, good first gear. Can be bought new for I think around $2000 maybe a little less, rebuilt I think I saw in the 1400-1600 range.

The Saginaw. For lower power motors, and cars that are driven as opposed to raced or abused, it is hard to beat. Comes in various first gear sets. The closest to the stock 2:93 is the 3:11 box that typically came behind four cylinder cars. Look for two grooves on the imput shaft. The same transmission came behind V-8 and V-6 motors, just different gear sets 3:42, 2:54, at least one other. These transmissions are at least as strong as the stock gear box but cannot take big tires with big burnouts or high horsepower clutch dumps. But if you are relatively careful, a tremendous transmission for the money. Importantly for those looking for a no fuss install, the Sags use the same course spline input shaft as stock so your stock clutch can be used. the trans is just a smidge longer then a stock three speed but still fits with the stock drive shaft. You do have to change the front yoke to a fine spline but you can get a yoke that uses the stock style ujoints. You will need a longer speedo cable but otherwise its a pretty easy swap.

Used not rebuilt, in the $300 range. A good rebuild kit $120, less expensive kits are under $100 now. Basic transmission, not a complicated rebuild. I run the 3:11 Saginaw. I purchased the box for 250, a kit for 120, new shift forks for 100 and 30 for degrease, paint and some hardware I wanted to replace, so $500 total. Rebuilt units in the $900-$1100 range.

I run it pretty good, including about 15 runs down the dragstrip at the nationals this past August, and a few at the 2016 and 2015 Nationals. Otherwise its a street car. This is my son making his very first pass ever in the car (yes, this was the year Dad (me) let some one else drive the car. First time in 40 years, lol).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMVz66tyrKQ

So you can see the trans is plenty durable and certainly strong enough for what you may want to do, and the most economical of the traditional four speeds.
 
#24 ·
MY first 75 Camaro had a Saginaw with a 350 and it broke several times in the two years I owned it. I also had one in a 79 Olds Starfire with a 231 even fire V-6, I drove the crap out of it and it liked it. Light car, small tires, and low power they are decent.
 
#26 ·
The Muncie I fixed the problem with never broke and still exist, when I sold the car in 79 I put a Saginaw back in. Poor old Muncie later did time in my 67 Camaro and 74 Z28, needs some bearings and syncros and it will run again. Yes they all brake, some just a whole lot easier.
 
#25 ·
Yes, I have heard all the moaning about breaking Saginaw four speeds and thus you should never ever ever ever run one. I have to laugh, lol. Abuse the stock three speed, they come apart, I know I have done it and have the broken parts pile to prove it (any of the old time guys will remember when you over revved the stock three speed, it severely weakened the retaining rings which you then had to tear down and replace. Old days for certain, lol). But many many cars run the stock three speed no problem.

Same deal, abuse the Saginaw, they will also come apart. I had a 396 big block 57 for a little while, yea, broke the M-21 with it. They will all break depending on what you are doing with it. But the thing is lots and lots of people run the Saginaw four speed in their tri-fives and keep them together, including me. You just have to be reasonable with them that's all. If you want to engage in hole shots, burn outs, put big meats and HP and dump the clutch, then the Sag is not really a good choice for you.

But if you want or just need an economical traditional four speed, and can deal with not giving it too much abuse, its a great alternative, no matter what anyone says.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Awesome 57 you have there Dragsix! Put that nomad to shame for sure, now in terms of being economical I'd love to just get a good Saginaw to throw behind the 235 and call it a day but you see my hope was to put in a good four speed like the BW ST-10 so that I don't have to worry about getting another trans just for the 283. Makes swapping the 283 in a bit easier as i'd just have to change the pilot bearing i believe, another thing too is that I've been graced upon with having the lead foot that runs in both sides of the family lol

When I'm in a hurry for work I jam though that three speed proper well (from 1st-2nd at 25, then 2nd-3rd at 35-40, 45 if i'm really booking it!) and I must admit it handles it really well considering what it is, I have chirped the tires a bit at a few local stop signs but I try to refrain myself as the axle hope is just nutty (I don't just dump it, I ease into it a bit then let off quickly that way it rolls into it) jence why I haven't tried a proper burn out yet. But if my wallet wont allow me I'll just get a good Saginaw and run that behind the 235, not sure how it'd handle the 283 though even if I drive it like a 'normal' person.

The BW would be nice in the long run anyways as I do plan on taking it to races eventually, think a good streetable race car I can drive to and from the events (long as it doesn't break during lol).

Edit: Considering the costs of the good 4 speeds I'm probably just going to go with the saginaw, plus I found one for $75 bucks. I'll put up the photos of it in a bit.
 
#31 ·
saginaws are VERY EASY to rebuild...I had NEVEr done one.....tore mine apart 15 years ago,and rebuilt it in less then 3 hours,and that included cleaning the case too!!!

I`ve had a 2 ringed saginaw behind a decent running 350, with a nova 3.08 rear end for the better part of 10 years with NO problem (1955 wagon)....granted...I have never abused it.....I have no reason to......
 
#32 · (Edited)
yep, 3:11 but that input shaft looks pretty used up. The front bearing retainer is also shot, at lease in my opinion. Too much rust. You should be able to find replacements easy enough if, the inside gears are good. You should clean up the outside of the case with a wire brush just to get the loose crud out of the way and pull the side cover. If that trans has been sitting the way I think its been siting, it may not be a suitable candidate. What you want to see if a box gull of gear oil, and everything shinny.
 
#33 · (Edited)
After thinking it over heavily I'm going to be spending the current budget on getting a good BW st-10 and what other bits I need to get the 283 in instead of getting it painted. It'll still get painted just not for awhile, plus the 283 is a fresh rebuild while the 235 is going to need one eventually.

The main reason to go with the Saginaw was so that I'd have enough to get a decent four speed but also get the paint sorted. But from what I'm seeing price wise for any other Saginaw I'm finding I'm just better off getting the good trans and waiting on paint till the father in law finishes up his 70 nova.
 
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