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Winter project; replace 235/PG with 383/700R4

11K views 117 replies 23 participants last post by  tekctrl 
#1 ·
Finally got the 235/PG out of the '57 today. Now must hit the firewall with some degreaser & elbow grease so I can paint it to match the rest of the engine bay. Already have the 383 (9.5:1, vortec heads, Lunati hyd roller, Edelbrock Performer & Q-Jet, HEI, etc) and the 700R4 sitting in the garage awaiting installation, along with a 500 PS box and the Ididit column.

Took it to Bowling Green last Aug with the six without any problems at all, but we want to add A/C and PS and the six just won't do it. It takes forever getting up to speed on freeway on-ramps, too, which makes us nervous.

Looking forward to seeing everyone at B-G this coming Aug!

:moddhappychevelle22
 

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#51 · (Edited)
Fuel line

Ran some 5/16" fuel line from the pump to the carb, got it all bent properly and cut to length, and ... it won't flare! Used two different flaring kits, even tightening them with pliers the tool just pushed the line down in the clamp. Turns out the steel line is just too hard for my tools. Ended up taking the line to a local garage and they flared it with no problem. They showed me some new line (copper? Brass?) that they said would work just fine for fuel lines and was much softer and easier to bend/flare than steel, but they didn't know what it was made of. Anyone ever hear of that stuff? They said that it's new on the market.

:tu
 
#54 ·
I did the fuel and brake lines in the nickel-copper tubing on my model A Hotrod. Easy the bend, easy to flare, just great stuff.
 
#55 · (Edited)
Fuel Line

Nickel-Copper...Great, thanks! The steel fuel lines are all in place but should anything need replacing in the future I'll be sure to ask for Nickel-Copper lines. Being softer than steel, does this stuff present any issues when used for brake lines?

This is the sort of thing that could be very good to know if someone needs to replace some or all of their fuel lines. Saves a lot of frustration. :) I had never heard of this stuff until the shop tech mentioned it yesterday.

Once it's all bolted in place, I'll need to build some lines from the trans to the trans cooler and will definitely have to try using Nickel-Copper!

:shakehands:
 
#56 ·
700R4 torque converter bolts

Bought some torque converter bolts at a parts store so I could connect the trans to the engine. Surprise...they don't work...thread is too fine. Got some grade-8 bolts, surprise, they fit but just a hair loose and they're too long (they'll dimple the converter and destroy the lockup clutch) anyway. Was going out to get some shorter SAE bolts but first rang the trans shop that built the trans and ... surprise ... all 700R4 torque converter bolts are metric. It had never occurred to me that any of the necessary parts might not be SAE standard. The only metric tools that I have are screwdrivers, pliers, hammers, pry-bars, and adjustable wrenches...and a few sockets that I got by accident. (sigh)

Repeat to self; I'm doing this because I love it! I'm doing this because I love it! :confused0062:
 
#62 · (Edited)
Making progress

Finally got the new engine and the new trans put together. Just about ready to get out the hoist and find out whether the new motor mounts work, the HEI distributor & exhaust manifolds clear the firewall, the new shift and throttle linkages fit, how much I need to shorten the driveshaft, etcetera. Still have to sync the distributor to the cam and bolt up the torque converter before I do that, though. Hoping (crossing fingers) that that happens without any surprises, but the way this has gone so far ...
 

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#64 ·
The motor mounts are Supposed to push the engine forward 3/4" for the HEI clearance, so the valve covers should clear also. Having said that, I've found enough stuff that didn't do what it was supposed to do. All part of the game. If the covers don't clear, I'll change them for shorter ones...not important.

:blowtiedb:
 
#65 ·
Oops

Oops, yet another surprise. Even though the torque converter seated into the trans, with the trans bolted to the engine the torque converter was pressed hard up against the flex plate. (Hard enough that the torque converter won't turn, even though it isn't yet bolted to the flex plate). According to the shop which built the trans, I've probably destroyed the front pump. I know that I seated the torque converter into the trans, engaging the converter tangs into the pump, so the only thing that I can think of is that perhaps the flex plate has a front/back 'dish' and they were reversed? If there is a front and a back to a flex plate, how does one know one from the other?

Removed the trans and returned it to the shop for inspection.

:confused0024:
 
#66 ·
Oops, yet another surprise. Even though the torque converter seated into the trans, with the trans bolted to the engine the torque converter was pressed hard up against the flex plate. (Hard enough that the torque converter won't turn, even though it isn't yet bolted to the flex plate). According to the shop which built the trans, I've probably destroyed the front pump. I know that I seated the torque converter into the trans, engaging the converter tangs into the pump, so the only thing that I can think of is that perhaps the flex plate has a front/back 'dish' and they were reversed? If there is a front and a back to a flex plate, how does one know one from the other?

Removed the trans and returned it to the shop for inspection.

:confused0024:
the correct position of the flex plate is the aft-most facing of it. indicated by the raised pads where the converter bolts on facing the trans. sometimes when mating the trans and engine the converter will slip out a little and then it is out of the pump.
 
#68 ·
Test-fit completed

Got the engine situated in the engine bay and found a few things that need correcting. Motor mounts work properly (sigh of relief), distributor and valve covers clear the firewall fine, plenty of space between the radiator and the water pump. Passenger side exhaust manifold clears the firewall fine but will need to remove the OEM frame horns prior to putting in the new exhaust system. Need to get a fitting for the fuel pump, tweak the throttle linkage, modify the trans TV cable bracket so that it doesn't interfere with the throttle linkage, and a few other small details.

My measurements were right on; the a/c compressor sits well into where the '57 battery normally resides. Removed the battery tray and will have to move the battery to the trunk. Not what we wanted, but...

Got the trans back from the shop today and doesn't look like anything was destroyed after all. However, they did discover that the aftermarket dipstick (supposedly just for the 700R4) level markings were incorrect and would've resulted in running the trans with extremely low fluid levels. It was the right length, just marked wrong for Full/Add. I'll have to change the Add/Full markings on the dipstick. Another disaster averted!

Barring more surprises, we'll hopefully have the trans & engine together and bolted into place in the engine bay in the next few days. :p3:
 

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#69 ·
Surprise #364

While the engine was out, I thought that it would be a good idea to test the 'new' OEM style starter by using it to put #1 cyl on TDC first. Surprise...the new starter was dead! Solenoid worked intermittantly, motor wouldn't spin at all. Removed the starter from the engine while it was on the hoist and retested using fully charged battery and new jumper cables...same result. The bad news; no receipt, no return. I got the starter last fall, so the receipt is long gone. The good news; found out Before it went into the car, and it's 'only' $50. Ran down to our local speed shop and bought a new mini-starter ... more $$, less hassle.

Got the engine & trans together and bolted into the engine bay with the able assistance of a helpful neighbor. Still need to drill the frame and bolt the tailshaft crossmember into place. Discovered that the little pieces that the TV cable uses to attach to the carb linkage have disappeared. (sigh)

The 'universal' throttle linkage actually does fit...amazing. Have to remove the carb throttle connector for cable throttle, though, as it interferes with the throttle rod.

Onward! :flag6:
 
#70 · (Edited)
Surprises

Something is wrong ... got the PS all connected, the distributor installed, throttle linkage buttoned up, speedo connected, started on reconnecting the wiring, and the new tailshaft crossmember ready to bolt in. Something must be wrong because everything is going smoothly. This car has NEVER failed to fight every step of the way since we've owned it.

If the mercury holds going to try to measure the new driveshaft and get it to the shop, finish the wiring (and reroute some of it to clean up the firewall & engine bay), bolt up the tailshaft crossmember, fiddle with the shift linkage, run new battery cables from the trunk, add grounding straps from the body & engine to the frame, and get the car to the shop for a new exhaust system. That ought to be good for a few hours of fun. :sign0020: Still haven't figured out what I'm going to do about the torque converter lockup. I'm open to suggestions there. Oh, still have to re-drill the OEM steering wheel to go on the Ididit column properly (at 12 o'clock), button down the new steering column, and wire the horns. :p3:
 
#71 ·
Making progress

Awaiting some parts to complete moving the battery to the trunk. Think I got the HEI wiring figured out but don't have the right clip. (of course) Got the ground straps in without problem, plugs and plug cables sorted out, cleaned up some of the wiring on the firewall, and hopefully will complete rewiring tomorrow when I get the correct connectors, wire, & etc.

At the risk of jinxing myself, this could be back on the road before the end of the month if it keeps moving along without surprises. :happy0030:
 

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#72 ·
Snag

Surprise; every bolt on the 700R4 is metric, including the torque converter and tailshaft crossmember bolts. Naturally nobody here has the correct metric bolts for the crossmember and must special order them. (sigh) Note to anyone considering using a 700R4; You're going to need metric wrenches and bolts.

Working on moving the battery (can't run the cable through the frame after all...baffles inside frame rails. :y:) and rewiring for the new steering column and reconnecting everything under the hood. (I hate automotive wiring :confused0062:)
 
#75 · (Edited)
Battery in the trunk

Made progress on moving the battery to the trunk. After much cogitation I went out and got a 150 amp inline fuse and put it in the GROUND lead right at the battery connection along with some heat-shrink tubing. The fuse tucks in right behind the plastic marine battery box, out of sight but easily accessible. No relay, since I want to run the alternator charge lead to the starter solenoid terminal rather than the full length of the car (with commensurate losses). Tomorrow I'll run the hot cable up the frame rail, with appropriate fasteners, ground the battery to the frame, and mark that off of the 'to-do' list. Since the welding cable (1-guage) only came in black, I put a black tie-wrap on the negative lead and a red tie wrap on the positive lead so they're not confused if/when the battery needs to be removed. Made the grommets just a little bit oversize (loose fit) for the cable both for easy fit and for that little extra bit of ventilation in the trunk area...the battery box came with ventilation holes. (I put it in the Ground lead because if the hot lead ever shorts to anything, it will all still come back through the ground lead and blow the fuse. I'm hoping that 150A is about right, with a 100A alternator and a mini-starter turning a 9.5:1 engine.)

Doesn't look like we'll make it back on the road by the end of the month, since the bolts to hold the trans tailshaft to the crossmember are on order and due in Monday. Don't want to drill the frame & bolt the new crossmember in 'til I can bolt it up to the tailshaft first...so that I Know that it's properly situated.

Might be easier to finish modifying/reconnecting the wiring if it had some volts on it...we'll see.

Got the radiator & fan in. Discovered that the PS fluid that I added to the new PS system is now on the floor under the car. Suspect that I neglected to fully tighten a fitting, but we'll find out tomorrow.
 

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#76 ·
Wiring question

Question for those who have done this before; When moving the battery to the trunk, is it better to run the hot lead up the outside of the frame, away from the fuel line but more subject to side-impact damage? Or is it better to run it with the fuel & brake lines on the inside, protected from side-impact damage but closer to fuel line? (Want to make sure that I do it right the First time :) )
 
#77 ·
fuel line should be routed on the outside of frame to be as far away from heat as possible. I put battery cable on the inboard side for separation and easier routing to starter
 
#78 ·
Our car was originally a 6-cyl so the fuel line is routed along the inside of the frame rail. Rather than pulling out the existing line and running all new fuel line on the outside, I'm thinking that running the hot cable on the outside of the frame, encasing it in flexible 'wiring loom', and running it through the body mount braces with liberal use of clamps for extra support should do the job. (?) Thought about routing it between the inner and outer rocker panels, but that seemed just a bit too exposed.
 
#80 ·
Trans crossmember

Went to bolt in the new trans crossmember and found a problem with the self-tapping bolts going into the frame. They won't self-tap. Drilled a pilot hole in my frame and started the bolt...and watched the frame strip the threads off of the 'self-tapping' bolt trying to get it to tap. Going to have to throw out the bolts that came in the kit and drill completely through the frame, then go out and get some 5" hardened bolts & nuts. (sigh)
 

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#81 ·
Do not drill thru the frame and use long bolts. This causes the frame to collapse in-between the bolt and nut. Google nutsert. Get some and install them. Or weld on the cross member bracket's
 
#82 · (Edited)
My welding skills suck, so I'll check out the 'nutserts'...and perhaps just thread the oversize holes with a tap and put oversize bolts in the crossmember brackets. Shouldn't be necessary, though, if the provided bolts weren't getting stripped trying to get them started. Made in China? The self-tapping bolts that I used for grounding the battery, engine and body to the frame didn't strip when I put them in...made in USA?
 
#83 · (Edited)
Update

Finished installing the trans crossmember and the driveshaft. Got the driveshaft cut exactly right, it dropped right in. Ended up using 5" bolts and going completely through the frame on the pass side for the crossmember bracket. The driver side was easier. I drilled the frame to slightly undersize for the self-tapping bolts, then ran a die through the holes and pre-threaded them. Had to use a crescent wrench to turn the tap, with the floor board so close, but it worked. :tu

Moving on to wrapping up the wiring to the starter, cut and terminate the hot battery lead, change out an instrument cluster gauge, and finish the Ididit column wiring. Then it's off to get a new exhaust system...if it starts. :p3:
 

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#85 ·
Waiting on parts again. :-(

Me (to Summitt rep); I have an Ididit column in a '57 chev with a Grant steering wheel. Can't install the wheel without the install kit. The Grant site has dozens of installation kits but doesn't tell me which kit is right for this wheel and column combination.
Summitt rep; I've checked and you need the install kit #XXXX.
Me; Fine, let's get that.

Received kit #XXXX yesterday. It's for a golf cart!! :banghead:

Back to Summitt..."Sorry about that. We'll get the correct kit to you by Wednesday". Where do they find these sales reps?!?!
 
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