[AndyBrand]

Hi trifive community,

Something blew out the bottom of my oil pan a couple weeks ago - serious damage.

Engine is a 283 v8 (2 barrel). I believe it is factory original (not certain though). VIN says car is a 210 with inline 6 engine, but have mixed advice on the chance that the 283 engine could have been a factory option upgrade.

I'd like to get your perspective and advice/guidance on a few questions:

• Where can I find the numbers on engine to determine if they match the car?
• If it actually DID come with the car originally, should I try to rebuild it?
• If the numbers don't match, is it best to simply get a new engine or rebuild it?

Thanks for your help.

AndyBrand

 

[larry48]

Rebuild vs Replace

Put a 350, 700 R in it.

 

[Lloyd's 55 R.I.P 7-10-2016]

I rebuilt my 265 just because I like it. Best choice by far, even if numbers matching, is to put in a newer, bigger, better one with the best trans you can afford. JMO, not what I did (love mine, but not the smart thing to do). Money wise, numbers matching makes VERY little difference in price on prob 98% of Trifives. Lloyd

 

[G.R.]

Like Lloyd said put a 350 crate eng/ 700r trans in it , you could probably get both for less than what it would cost to rebuild,if indeed it threw a rod, the 283 unless you are an experienced engine builder and have the shop/tools to do it in...

That 350/700r combo makes for a great,dependable drivetrain for most any hobby car...and in the future, if you want to, they can be easily hopped up for more hp relatively inexpensively.

Also unless you are going for a concours winning stock show car, the engine/trans swap will not make much of a difference if you ever decide to sell

 

[wraplock]

If I were you I would first try to determine if the engine is original to the car and then IF it is indeed re-buildable. If something blew out the bottom odds are it's a rod that may have taken out the crank and maybe even the block. Have a look at the front set of motor mount holes in the front cross member. If the car was a six there will be some tell-tale signs of the original 6 cylinder motor mounts having been installed.

I doubt the VIN tag would state the car was a 6 cylinder if the car came with a 283 unless perhaps the VIN tag is not original to the car. This seems less likely. It is not impossible that the original dealer made the swap at the time of sale or at some time, early in it's life, a prior owner may have had to re-powered the car for what ever reason and opted to swap out the 6 for an early 283. But as the saying goes "if the collar doesn't match the cuffs" (tag says 6 car has an 8) it's not going to be an issue weather you rebuild the non original 283 or replace it with a modern motor.

Don

 

[carls 56]

:wavey: hi andy. vin will tell you if it was an 8 or 6 (V in vin would make it an 8). if you don't care about original, i would put a crate eng. in it. :anim_25:

 

[pistoncan]

Hi trifive community,

Something blew out the bottom of my oil pan a couple weeks ago - serious damage.

Engine is a 283 v8 (2 barrel). I believe it is factory original (not certain though). VIN says car is a 210 with inline 6 engine, but have mixed advice on the chance that the 283 engine could have been a factory option upgrade.

I'd like to get your perspective and advice/guidance on a few questions:

• Where can I find the numbers on engine to determine if they match the car?
• If it actually DID come with the car originally, should I try to rebuild it?
• If the numbers don't match, is it best to simply get a new engine or rebuild it?

Thanks for your help.

AndyBrand

Andy, If it doen;t have a V in the VIN than the chances are 9999 to 1 that the engine has been replaced at some point. So numbers don;t really matter.
If there are bosses above the oil pan on the side of the block for side motor mounts then its 100% sure its a later engine.

You need a new motor. Depends on what came through the side of the pan, weather you use the one you have or get a different one. Doesn;t matter if you do the work or someone else does. Its a good time to rebuild at the least.

I know most people suggest buying a crate motor, but they are not spending their money. And it would be nice if you have the money, If not you can decide what you want to reuse and what you want to replace. If the block and crank are good. you probably only need a rod and and a pan. However, both of them could be junk too.
How many miles are on the engine since it was rebuilt? Do you know if the heads were redone at that time?
Let us know what you find. With a little more info we can make a more accurate assesment.
Gary

 

[AndyBrand]

I rebuilt my 265 just because I like it. Best choice by far, even if numbers matching, is to put in a newer, bigger, better one with the best trans you can afford. JMO, not what I did (love mine, but not the smart thing to do). Money wise, numbers matching makes VERY little difference in price on prob 98% of Trifives. Lloyd

Thanks Lloyd. Can you tell me what you mean here? I'm assuming that if the numbers do match (1/999999% chance), that the value of the car will be worth more to rebuild than to replace. There seems to be a mystery around valuation of a restored car (my whole car is original (except the new floor and possibly the engine). I don't currently have the $$$$ to do a full concourse level restoration, but would (if possible) try to keep as much of the original equipment as possible and only change what's necessary - in order to retain the car's value.

If having an original engine is critical to keeping the car's value - I'd prefer to try to restore it. If it's not, then from everyone elses advise, it may be smarter to simply replace it - due to better reliability/performance/etc is probably worth more than what a rebuild would fetch in value (plus the hassle of rebuilding versus just dropping in a new one).

What are you're (Lloyd or anyone else) opinion about this? I'm a novice here, but felt I found a real gem of a car (almost 100% original and road ready). Now trying to make a smart choice.

If values are all equal (new engine versus rebuilding a non-original), I'm feeling it is smarter to just go totally new with it then - hoping total value and reliability are the goal. I doubt that I will ever want to rod this car out - as it's too sentimental and gets so much attention around it's original look - patina and all.

 

[CJS57]

Resto-Modded cars bring more money on the auction block than stock restored cars now a days! They are more driveable and safer in todays traffic. Now if you have a documented 283/270 hp Convertible or Nomad then that is different it may be better to restore it bone stock.
There are no matching engine to Vin numbers on 57's! Only the V for V8 and a code for the build date and transmission. So there is no way to tell for absolute sure that it is not some other close to the date engine from another car.
Cheapest and best way is a crate engine, dressed with your old engine parts to look like a stock motor. Welcome! And we need Pictures!

 

[Earlc]

57 engine ??

unless I have been wrong all of these years, a quick way to tell if your engine is in fact a 57 is...57 was the only year that the 283 did not have side motor mount location holes...just a quick way to identify a 57 283

 

[G.R.]

I think until your engine is torn down to see exactly what happened and if it is rebuildable it is a fairly moot point. Since your desire is to keep it as stock as possible then the 283 is the "correct" engine for your car if indeed the vin plate indicates the car came with a V-8.
Just a note on what can happen internally, in '65 I had a '57 sedan delivery with a 283 and lunched the engine, threw a rod right thru the pan, it damaged the crank and the #7 piston wall was so scored it could not be bored out, one of the valves was bent and jammed in the head effectively destroying that head, two other pistons were crushed in the bore.
And I believe EarlC is correct and you may have a hard time locating a correct rebuildable '57 283...maybe, maybe not?
As has been suggested you could put in a crate 350 and dress it to look like a 283.
From what I've seen, watching auctions and such, stock '57's models, even concours correct ones are not worth as much as a resto-rod with the exception of the Nomads and Convertibles and the rare fuelie or tri-powered or dual quad engined models that were special ordered. A few years ago at Barret-Jackson a 210 wagon, 10-point concurs correct winner, perfect in every detail, all the factory/dealer options, brought thousands less than a similar 210 resto-rod wagon. But those are examples of the high end of the spectrum.

Sorry for the long post just pointing out a few thoughts. Good luck in your decision

 

[acardon]

Engine is a 283 v8 (2 barrel). I believe it is factory original (not certain though). VIN says car is a 210 with inline 6 engine, but have mixed advice on the chance that the 283 engine could have been a factory option upgrade.

Andy, if the vin number is for a 6 cylinder, there is no way a bone stock 283 will help the value on a otherwise completely stock car. You won't be able to convence anybody that a V-8 came in a car with a 6 cyl vin.
A 283 V-8 also has staggered bolt holes on the valve cover, instead of directly above one another in later V-8s.

 

[Lloyd's 55 R.I.P 7-10-2016]

Thanks Lloyd. Can you tell me what you mean here? I'm assuming that if the numbers do match (1/999999% chance), that the value of the car will be worth more to rebuild than to replace. There seems to be a mystery around valuation of a restored car (my whole car is original (except the new floor and possibly the engine). I don't currently have the $$$$ to do a full concourse level restoration, but would (if possible) try to keep as much of the original equipment as possible and only change what's necessary - in order to retain the car's value.

If having an original engine is critical to keeping the car's value - I'd prefer to try to restore it. If it's not, then from everyone elses advise, it may be smarter to simply replace it - due to better reliability/performance/etc is probably worth more than what a rebuild would fetch in value (plus the hassle of rebuilding versus just dropping in a new one).

What are you're (Lloyd or anyone else) opinion about this? I'm a novice here, but felt I found a real gem of a car (almost 100% original and road ready). Now trying to make a smart choice.

If values are all equal (new engine versus rebuilding a non-original), I'm feeling it is smarter to just go totally new with it then - hoping total value and reliability are the goal. I doubt that I will ever want to rod this car out - as it's too sentimental and gets so much attention around it's original look - patina and all.

Hi Andy. Sounds like you have a great trifive to start with. We sure do like pics (hint,hint,hint). Unless you can find a 6cyl with the right date codes, it will never be a numbers matching car. What I tried to say is I have seen almost no Trifives that were numbers matching totally restored that brought great numbers at sale time. Sure, a few (FEW)brought big numbers, but they were expecially desirable models (converts,nomads,2dr hdts) moneywise in that order. Sure there are exceptions, but very few. Yours does not appear to be one of those, regardless of how nice it is. Sounds like what you have is a Trifive in Fantastic unrestored shape, which is prob everyone here's dream. Since it will not be a money car, might be a good idea to update drivetrain, brakes, ect. These will increase the value of the car much more and could be undone easily by someone else in the future. Drivetrain is totally your choice and what you like (cost to rebuild the 283 is not that far from a crate motor) which is much larger, more hp, more reliable, ect. If it were mine, I would update but not cut or tear anything up that can not be done back to orig. if you later change your mind. You asked for my opinion and this is exactly what it is, Please take it with a grain of salt. You are probably the envy of a WHOLE lot of us here on the site right now. Just drive it, forget about what it is worth, put it on the street and use it for what it was made for. Regards :shakehands: Lloyd

 

[AndyBrand]

Thx GR-

I think until your engine is torn down to see exactly what happened and if it is rebuildable it is a fairly moot point. Since your desire is to keep it as stock as possible then the 283 is the "correct" engine for your car if indeed the vin plate indicates the car came with a V-8.
Just a note on what can happen internally, in '65 I had a '57 sedan delivery with a 283 and lunched the engine, threw a rod right thru the pan, it damaged the crank and the #7 piston wall was so scored it could not be bored out, one of the valves was bent and jammed in the head effectively destroying that head, two other pistons were crushed in the bore.
And I believe EarlC is correct and you may have a hard time locating a correct rebuildable '57 283...maybe, maybe not?
As has been suggested you could put in a crate 350 and dress it to look like a 283.
From what I've seen, watching auctions and such, stock '57's models, even concours correct ones are not worth as much as a resto-rod with the exception of the Nomads and Convertibles and the rare fuelie or tri-powered or dual quad engined models that were special ordered. A few years ago at Barret-Jackson a 210 wagon, 10-point concurs correct winner, perfect in every detail, all the factory/dealer options, brought thousands less than a similar 210 resto-rod wagon. But those are examples of the high end of the spectrum.

Sorry for the long post just pointing out a few thoughts. Good luck in your decision

Thanks GR. This is exactly the kind of insight I was hoping for! Y'all are probably right - and what I'll probably do is make it the best driver it can be, but also hang onto all the oem stuff, just in case someone would want it.

Doubt it will be a show car, but I may eat my words in a couple years.

Safe and fun times to ya.

 

[AndyBrand]

Hi Andy. Sounds like you have a great trifive to start with. We sure do like pics (hint,hint,hint). Regards :shakehands: Lloyd

Hi Lloyd,

Have a bunch of pics in a photo gallery.
Not sure how to create a link on here, but you can get to it from viewing my profile.

It's called "Lucky Penny" which is the name my son gave the car.

 

[Lloyd's 55 R.I.P 7-10-2016]

Just found them. Great pics Andy and that is one VERY nice wagon. Definitely a keeper. Love the pics of the Little Big Man (he's probably a keeper too) and you with the car. Priceless, especially years from now. :tu Lloyd