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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am considering the MSD Atomic EFi LS. Because it will automatically recognize 24 Ver. 58 triger wheel. It can be changed by me on a hand held unit if I change something no need to return ECM to a tuner. No harness rewire fee. Ect... Here is my question. With no transmission controller I would need to buy TCI or GMPP controller for I think $1000. Now I have a built 700r4 and a 4l60 and a T56 to chose from. Don't think I want another straight shift. Is the 4l60 worth the cost of a controller over 700r4?? MSD did a good sales job on me in the Hot Rod Power tour. Also like the GMPP control modules at a better price. BUT it will not support 24 reluctor in my LS2.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yes I still have the Stock 05 GTO harness and ECM plus extra LS2 intake with Fuel Rail.. Thanks for your opinion. The 24x Ls2 seems to be a good prospect for the MCD LS EFI unit.
 

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I am considering the MSD Atomic EFi LS. Because it will automatically recognize 24 Ver. 58 triger wheel. It can be changed by me on a hand held unit if I change something no need to return ECM to a tuner.
So do you plan on changing your crankshaft and associated sensors that often? Not trying to dig you, but that's a pretty different evaluation point you picked out. I think all options you could pick for EFI would also require harness changes with that.

If you want very detailed tuning capability, look at Holley or BigStuff3. Holley will support a 4L60e w/o a separate controller. BigStuff3 is racer stuff, have to know what you're doing. IMHO, MSD is at the other end of the spectrum, focused more on easy install vs high function. FAST EZ EFI is somewhere in the middle.

I had BigStuff3 but sold it as it's more than I know how to do. I bought the Holley Dominator which can do a lot, but will also do self-optimization.

Good luck,
Charlie
 

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Yes I still have the Stock 05 GTO harness and ECM plus extra LS2 intake with Fuel Rail.. Thanks for your opinion. The 24x Ls2 seems to be a good prospect for the MCD LS EFI unit.
If you like money why not save some. Simply reuse your stock harness/ECM. The MSD and anything else is $$$$! You can get you harness reworked and ECM tuned to your specs for $400 bucks. You change anything then a retune is free less shipping. It comes fully labeled and will have everything ready for it to run. Simply hoop up 4-5 wires external to the motor and it will run.

Wayne Hartwig
http://www.150tunes.com/
Emails are best - [email protected] He typically doesn't hear the phone ring with all of the equipment.
509-340-3911


If you reuse the stock harness then I would run a 4l60e if you want an auto.

If you want to tune it your self then check out HPtuners.
 

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The 700R4 and the 4L60 are the same transmission. GM just renamed the 700R4. Electronics were added in 1994. The 4l60E is an electronic transmission ,(hence the E), and must use a controller.
 

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The 4l60E is an electronic transmission ,(hence the E), and must use a controller.
If you're referring to an external controller as the OP mentioned, sometimes yes, sometimes no. Stock ECM, Holley Dominator, FAST EZ EFI won't need it, don't know about the others.

Given the cost of an external tranny controller, I'd sure try to match my engine programming needs with a package that also supported my tranny.

Charlie
 

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Little clearifcations. There are two stock computers types/styles. Gen III PCM's which will do both engine and trans in one no need for external anything just tune and go. The Gen IV's like the LS2 use a ECM which as no trans control. So the Gen IV's use a TCM. These are usually mounted close the the ECM externally. But, the 4l60e and 4l80e use the external T42 TCM and the 6L80/90 use the T43 which is actually inside the trans pan itself so there is a controller with them it's just self contained.
 

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I am considering the MSD Atomic EFi LS. Because it will automatically recognize 24 Ver. 58 triger wheel. It can be changed by me on a hand held unit if I change something no need to return ECM to a tuner. No harness rewire fee. Ect... Here is my question. With no transmission controller I would need to buy TCI or GMPP controller for I think $1000. Now I have a built 700r4 and a 4l60 and a T56 to chose from. Don't think I want another straight shift. Is the 4l60 worth the cost of a controller over 700r4?? MSD did a good sales job on me in the Hot Rod Power tour. Also like the GMPP control modules at a better price. BUT it will not support 24 reluctor in my LS2.
If you are going to buy the MSD Atomic setup, I'd go with the 700r4 just because you wouldn't need an additional controller. You'd save time and money.

With that said, though, there's no way I'd go with the Atomic EFI. The first deal-breaker for me is the ~$2500 price tag! Second, it takes some major changes to get past the capabilities of the stock ECM. There's just not a lot of reasons that it is necessary to swap out the electronics. Notice that I underlined "necessary". It's your car and if you want the MSD setup because the fuel rails are red, that's a perfectly good reason for you to buy it for your car. You could buy a lot of tuning in the future for the price of the MSD setup (and Hinson is right in your backyard to do it so you wouldn't have to deal with mail-order tunes)
 

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Throttle Body/Torque Converter Flex plate

Questions: The MSD fi doesn't yet support "drive by wire" according to MSD's website. Wouldn't it, therefore, be necessary to convert the existing Gen IV engine's DBW throttle body to cable actuated and also hook up a TV cable for the 700r4 transmission?
Also, aren't there some torque converter/flex plate issues with the 700r4 matchup?
 

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Questions: The MSD fi doesn't yet support "drive by wire" according to MSD's website. Wouldn't it, therefore, be necessary to convert the existing Gen IV engine's DBW throttle body to cable actuated and also hook up a TV cable for the 700r4 transmission?
Also, aren't there some torque converter/flex plate issues with the 700r4 matchup?
Yes and yes. The flexplate/torque converter part is easy and was covered by Scott earlier in this thread. You need a .4" spacer and longer flexplate bolts. Then just oval the bolt holes in the LS flexplate for the older torque converter to fit.

The cable throttle body is usually not so easy on a Gen IV, but it's mandatory with the MSD setup the original poster was asking about. The cable TB would also lend its self to the proper bracketry to make the kickdown work. That's why I suggested the 700r4 with that setup. In this case, the LS2 is somewhat unique in that it is a Gen IV with a 24x crank reluctor. So, if you want to convert to cable TB without the expensive MSD controller, you can run it off a factory Gen III computer like the '411.
 

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Questions: The MSD fi doesn't yet support "drive by wire" according to MSD's website. Wouldn't it, therefore, be necessary to convert the existing Gen IV engine's DBW throttle body to cable actuated and also hook up a TV cable for the 700r4 transmission?
Also, aren't there some torque converter/flex plate issues with the 700r4 matchup?
Do you have the stock harness and ECM. If not then the early PCM is an option then it will run a 4l60e as well. There are lots of cheaper options than aftermarket EFI IMO.
 

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Do you have the stock harness and ECM. If not then the early PCM is an option then it will run a 4l60e as well. There are lots of cheaper options than aftermarket EFI IMO.
Thank you BO185 (if your question is directed to me). However, my post was only to ask the throttle body question so that it could be clarified here in this discussion.
In my case I've already voted and am using a Gen III PCM/harness and a 4l60e (Gen III engine) if for no other reason than knowing that they have been in service in probably millions of vehicles by now and proven to work well (ain't broke).

Also, BO185 I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you for all of your great info and tips I've benefitted from along the way as I've worked through my project. Other contributors, as well, have been really helpful too but you stand out!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks to each of you. You all know what you are talking about. You make it sound so easy. I have been resarching this for a while and IT ANT EASY... The 24X LS2 is a stick in the mud.. I have the harness and ECM. BUT the harness is for a T56 not AUTOmatic. Ok That $400 won't touch this. John Speartech says he can rework the harness but he thought I would be better off selling it and his new one is $900. Plus $400 for the ECM reporgram. Then what $100 - $300 for the T42...? AND THEN What else??? Seems on this project there is ALWAYS something eles.. YEA I DO LIKE THE RED FUEL RAILS. But I like the simplisity of those RED rail haveing The ECM AND HARNESS hidden under them even more. And the Hand held unit to make any changes. I have read 2 books on Tuning and I decided that is not for me...

Some have said the easyest thing is to drop back to LS1 OR 411. Well I talked with a guy that was on the LS2 engenering team. He said among other problems with that was that the LS1 computer would not open the LS2 DBW TB 100%. But for another $300 there is an adapter to make it work...

The GMPP people on the power tour have a nice computer but it will not work with the 24x. Have to buy an adapter $400...

So far I have mostly been researching and buying what I new i needed, Now that the POWER TOUR is over I am ready to start. UH OH lsat night i bought another 55 and if this gets worked out this LS2 project may be over......
 

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The E40 ECM used with the LS2 is a ******* of a ECM as it was only used a few years. but if can be worked with. I would give Wayne a call and tell him what you have and what you want to do. If you want to give me a call next week as I am home now you can PM me and I will give you my number and I can answer your question more directly.
 
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