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Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone. My search for a '57 265 is over. Thank you Lord. Yesterday, a friend and I took a trip to Massachusetts and met fellow member Oldchey57 aka Dangerous Joe. Stayed and chatted with Joe for a while, had a nice conversation, and met his wife Pat (I'm bad with names), also a very nice lady. Not sure why he is called dangerous, because I left unharmed lol. Joe had the motor I wanted and he was overly generous in wanting to give it to me free. Just pick it up. I thanked him for his kindness, but I couldn't do that. I made an offering and I'm glad he accepted. We loaded the motor into my truck along with 2 heads, a four barrel intake and even the engine stand it was attached to.
Thank you Joe. Headed back to NY. Got it into the garage and found the following numbers:
Serial# on back of block is 3731548.
Date of build is D1157
Front passenger side block pad is T4I8C. From my research, the "C" means a '57 265.
I haven't gotten to the heads or intake yet, but I will.
A friend came over and offered a very heavy duty engine stand for it. I've never seen one built this well, so I accepted it and made the transfer to it. He also gave me a set of '66 Corvette valve covers in nice shape. I did quite well today with parts and tools.
I didn't have alot of time to take the engine apart today. I was able to remove the oil pan. I didn't see anything unusual inside. It doesn't turn freely. There is minor surface rust on the cylinders. A slight lip on the upper cylinders. Joe said he had this motor for 30 years on the stand. Was always inside. He was at one time going to bore it out to a 283 and have it as a backup for his '57 Belair. BTW, saw his car. Very nice. I'm going to continue taking this engine apart and hopefully will have it to the machine shop no later then this coming Monday. I don't anticipate any problems with this block. I think it will clean up nicely. I don't think I'll be buying anymore parts until I hear from the machine shop. Just want to play it safe. I'm going to be taking pics and posting some as I go along. I'm going to try and post some tonight. Thanks for looking, Carmine.



 

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Well, I had some free time this morning before taking my 91 year old mother to the doctors. Went out to the garage with the intention of removing the pistons. The crank still wouldn't turn and many of the rods were in a good position to get to. Started to undo the easy ones and was able to knock the pistons out. The pistons weren't necessarily frozen to the cylinder walls. Moreso, they were locked tight on the piston pin. Some wouldn't move at all. I think I got about 6 out and was able to loosen the rod cap on two, allowing me to turn the crank, which was a big help. Got the last two out with no problems. The bearings and crank journals all look good. The pistons are flattops and are most likely original. No broken skirts or rings. I didn't wire wheel the tops to see if they are oversize which I doubt. Boy, are they small. Compared one to a 409 piston. Yeah. Right. The cylinder walls, some, not all,
have some light surface rust. I bet a good honing would clean them up nicely. Tomorrow, I'll be taking the cam out. Can't wait to see if there is a notch in the end of it. Bought several cans of carb. cleaner to help with the lifer removal. After that, then the crank gets removed and any other parts that are clinging to the block. The crank turns nice and smooth. I don't foresee any problems with that. Then it's time to organize and cleanup. I'll get the parts together for the machine shop. I write down the part number and description of everything I drop off. I try to avoid any confusion; mostly on my part. I know the machine shop is busy and no great rush on my part, but I'm hoping to impose just a little and let them check the block right away to make sure it's a good candidate for rebuild. Once I get the go ahead, then it's time to start ordering parts. I already have a list of what I need. I'll have UPS here every 3 days. You gotta luv it. I do, Carmine.
 

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Finished taking the engine apart today. Once I got the harmonic balancer off, I then removed the timing cover and timing gear/chain on the cam. Lifted the crank out and all the bearings and journals look good. Next was the cam. The lifters weren't frozen in their bore. No signs of rust. Moreso, they were stuck quite well. No movement whatsoever. I turned the motor upside down and using a long thin chisel type tool, I was able to tap them up and out of the way of the cam lobes. I then removed the cam and turned the motor upright. I them taped each one down and out the bottom. The lifter bores all look good. All the lifters show signs of wear. You can see quite well some concaveness in the bottoms. Bottoms aren't mushroomed. The lobes on the cam show no signs of wear. Well, at least not much. I was also pleased to see that the cam didn't have a notch at the end. It was solid all the way around. I believe that is a good sign indicating a good oil system. Now onto cataloging the parts, numbers and list of what I'm taking to the machine shop on Monday, Carmine.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Carmine;

Do you still have the engine at you place, or has it already gone to the machine shop?

If you still have it, and the engine paint has not been removed, would you be so kind as to locate a section of the block that has a good representation of the reddish orange engine paint and take some more photos of that.

The paint looks more like 1957 Chevy orange than it does 1956 Chevy red, but it is hard to tell from the pictures.

Thanks.
I would accommodate you in a heartbeat, sorry, but the motor went to the machine shop on Monday. Same day it was degreased and hot tanked. It's bare now. I'll go out on a limb and say that this motor was definitely orange. From what I recall seeing, I would never have called it red, Carmine.
 

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Went to the machine shop today. The motor looks so clean. I was able to find a small patch of paint left on it and it is definitely orange. No red. Went over a game plan with the machinist. The block is going to be decked and there goes my pad number. But I took many pics of it. At this time, he seems to think that it should clean up at .030 over. He said it does appear to have some decent wear.
He is going to sonic check it and if it needs more boring and the block will take it, I want to go to the 283 size. Pistons are plentiful. I'll just try and sell my .030 265 pistons and rings if I have to. The 327/250 heads are in real nice shape. He thinks someone has worked on them before. The heads will be planed, how much I'm not sure, and there will be some porting and bowl work done. Bigger intake valves; 1.84. Plus a valve job. I ordered a bunch of parts today. Going to be Christmas in September here shortly. Oh boy.
The oil pan and timing cover cleaned up to like new. Just a minor patch of surface rust on the pan. So much grease and oil on it, it was very well protected. Going to paint them hopefully this weekend. I also ordered not only a complete engine gasket set, but separate steel head gaskets measuring .019 which will help with the CR. I would also like to mention, that for years I have heard the term porting and bowling the heads. I went on Youtube and watched a few videos of this procedure. Interesting. I saw how heads were ported and there is no doubt in my mind, that I could do the same at home. It really doesn't look that difficult.The right tools and time. Now for the bowling, the machinist showed me today what they do. I don't think I would attempt that right away, but maybe in time I might. Now it's kind of a waiting game. I have to wait for him to tell me about the pistons and which ones we are going to use. Then I can order the new rods, the only part I didn't order today, depending on how the pistons are fastened to the pins. Clips or pressed on?? Guess that is what it's called. I'm probably leaving something out, but I'll be back. So, until next time, have a great weekend, Carmine.
 

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Yeah David, I didn't know what it was either until it was recently explained to me. I do believe that decking the block will also make the piston come higher in the cylinder, making the cc smaller thus increasing the CR. I think it will be something that is good for me. My 265 left the factory with only 8.1:1 CR so I'm looking to get all the CR I can. That's another reason for using a thin steel head gasket and milling the heads. I would be happy if I could get the CR up to 9.1:1. From what I read, the 097 Duntov solid cam works best with this minimum CR. If I have this wrong, then please feel free to correct. I'm always willing to listen and learn, Carmine.
 

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** Carmine's 265 Engine Build

Yeah David, I didn't know what it was either until it was recently explained to me. I do believe that decking the block will also make the piston come higher in the cylinder, making the cc smaller thus increasing the CR.

Carmine...I'm not the expert here....However, I think you should be working closely with your machinist IRT how much you shave the block and heads....The amount that you remove from each should be thought out....I should think that you will want to achieve a CR of around 9.5:1 and a quench distance of between 0.038 to 0.043...Those figures will also be dependent upon you head gasket thickness of course.
 

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I think all the engines had steel shim head gaskets from the factory (~ 0.020")...
 

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Carmine...I have a good article attached that goes through a decent 265 build up....It discusses how critical the block and head milling is and the amount that they used...However, It left out what head gasket was used to achieve a 9.6:1 compression ratio.
 

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She won't open up Pops, for me anyway.
Dano...Try clicking on it and wait a little bit....You should get a window that looks similar to this (below) which will enable you to download the article to your computer....If you still can't get it to work, send me a PM with your email address and I'll get it to you. :)

 

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After communicating with Carmine through a PM, we decided to move the posts for the 265 engine build to the Engine Building forum. :)
 

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Just read that article. Very interesting. Thanks for sharing. I try to read and view everything I can in re. to building 265's for increased power. I talk with folks who have already done it and I learn from them. When I speak with my machinist, I feel somewhat comfortable when we exchange some ideas. When we discuss what we can do, I ask for a demo if possible and also how does a certain procedure affect other engine parts. We're on the same page where we want to develop the most reasonable horsepower possible, using pre '66 parts and technology. I also want a motor that is reliable and dependable. I don't have a budget per se for this motor, but I want to be involved in the planning and discussion of it. Do it once and do it right. So far, I think I'm on track. I ordered a bunch of parts from Summit and will probably order more. My used, in good shape distributor, arrived today and the harmonic balancer with pulleys is on the way. It's been a while since I've done something like this and I forget just how many parts are involved. BTW, my AFB off a '64 Corvette also arrived. According to the seller, it was taken off to put on some type of fuel injection. He said it worked fine when removed about 1.5 years ago. All the linkage is free and everything moves nicely. It is also very clean. I'm going to roll the dice on this one. I'm not going to rebuild it. Install as is and see what happens, Carmine.
 

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With respect to milling the decks and "removing" the OEM numbers it can be done 2 ways, first (this is how we do them now) on CNC mill, you'd be able to mill any amount you like from the decks and NEVER touch the numbers, second, on a conventional 16" or 18' rotary-blade mill such as a Storm-Vulcan and a good old-fashioned Bridgeport!

The latter is much more time-consuming, BUT, it will accomplish the same results! We've done hundreds of stock-appearing builds (for more HP) and never removed a single original digit from the numbers! Not 50 years ago, not today! Some decks we lowered by as much as .030". Most OEM stamped numbers require about .015" to totally "disappear", depends on how "hard" they were hit when stamped at G.M.?

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Also, while we're on the 265" casting you maybe want to discuss with your machinist about eliminating the need for the "flat" on the rear cam journal, it's a simple solution to use any conventional SB cam after the block mod! Here's a couple shots of the rear journal!
 

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P.S. Also, while we're on the 265" casting you maybe want to discuss with your machinist about eliminating the need for the "flat" on the rear cam journal, it's a simple solution to use any conventional SB cam after the block mod! Here's a couple shots of the rear journal!
Gary...Sounds like you really know your stuff and have done this a time or two.

You probably didn't see the quote below from Carmine's other thread....His block is a 57...So, his cam is the same as any other 57 and up SBC engine.

I was also pleased to see that the cam didn't have a notch at the end. It was solid all the way around. I believe that is a good sign indicating a good oil system. , Carmine.
 

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Then I can order the new rods, the only part I didn't order today, depending on how the pistons are fastened to the pins. Clips or pressed on?? Guess that is what it's called. I'm probably leaving something out, but I'll be back. So, until next time, have a great weekend, Carmine.
You're right, there's basically two types. Pressed pin, and what's called 'free floating' that takes the clips or aluminum buttons (on each end of the pin). Buttons haven't been used much for a long time now because they tend to score cylinder walls some, so having clips is a good thing now.

Chevy used pressed pin rods/pistons on pretty much everything in the old days. The free floating stuff was aftermarket and used on race and really hot street engines. The pressed type are quiet, but can under certain circumstances seize up (like lots of miles, low oil level at some point, etc.). The free floating type don't usually seize, but are kinda noisy when first fired up cold (until everything warms up and expands). I love the sound myself but others might think that something is wrong with the motor. lol

Pressed. The pin is started in the piston pin bore, then pressed through the rod to and through the pin bore on the other side.



Free floating. You might be able to see the groove in the pin bore. The clips go there to hold the pin in.



There are a few kinds and types of clips. Some types are just a standard style of retainer clip (I like this type better myself).

Regular retainer clips,



These are spiro locks. They are kinda like a Slinky thing that is spring steel.

 

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Some good info in the above threads. Thank you. I'll talk again with the machinist about decking the block. I'd really hate to lose that number on the pad if it can be avoided. But, at the same time, I think it's important to have this procedure done. I've never seen a block decked before and don't know how they do it. Not sure why they can't stop with the process just before the padded number. I wouldn't think it would affect the fit of the head. The number is beyond the mating surface. Maybe it's time to find something on Youtube about this, Carmine.
 

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Gary...Sounds like you really know your stuff and have done this a time or two.

You probably didn't see the quote below from Carmine's other thread....His block is a 57...So, his cam is the same as any other 57 and up SBC engine.
I knew Chevy made the change on the cam but I couldn't recall exactly when?? Of the two we built here I know one was a '55, had no oil filter if I recall, I believe the other was a '56?

If the O.P. didn't have the "flat" on the original cam then he'll be fine! If I recall when we did the mod on the block it allowed us to also use the later cam brg set in place of the original set with the 2 holes in the rear brg.

(Add) While I'm up here I would like to just add that the '56 Chevy mentioned below here in my signature just won the 2019 Drag-Week event, ended up running a 7.23 @ 196+ MPH still weighing 3800#. It was the 3rd fastest ride at the show overall.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. To add about the milling procedure, when you mill a deck with a "fixed" mill (like the Storm I mentioned above) you can only mill up to the numbers due to the "arc" of the blade, you cannot mill "across" the deck surface with this type mill. This is when it would get mounted on the Bridgeport and finished with a "straight" cut (about a 1/8" forward of where the head gasket rests) by traversing it in and out! This is all automated on the CNC style mills.
 

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Thanks for that info about milling a deck. I don't have a clue as to what type of machinery/equipment my machine shop might have. I'm due back there later in the week and will speak with him again about this, Carmine.
 
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