[Granpa49!!]

There is a rubber seal visible at the top of the cowl on both sides but I can't tell how long the seal is. It may consist of what I can see or it might be longer than that. Anyone got a handle on that? The oven process definitely will destroy that seal. The chemical dip might do the same.

 

[Bitchin'57]

I don't see the benefit of oven baking, and without knowing how high the temperature is set at, I'd worry that it might anneal the sheet metal.

 

[Granpa49!!]

I've read a good bit of commentary on the process. It dosen't leave any chemical behind in the seams. However, if the ashes aren't completely removed you have a problem with that later on. It seems that no matter what the process, the key to success is the skill level of the operator. Sand Blasting can damage a car if not done correctly, chem dip can cause problems if not removed correctly, oven bake can also cause problems if not done correctly or cleaned properly afterwards. Nothing is 100% problem free and it all hinges upon the knowledge and skill level of the person doing the job.

 

[LEE T]

There is a rubber seal visible at the top of the cowl on both sides but I can't tell how long the seal is. It may consist of what I can see or it might be longer than that. Anyone got a handle on that? The oven process definitely will destroy that seal. The chemical dip might do the same.

It goes all the way across on the 55 and 56. I like this place in Florida because they don't use acid. My local stripped doesn't use acid either, although I complained to the owner a few years ago about not getting the parts totally clean, and she wasn't aware of that so I showed her. Now they keep stripping until all the rust is gone. The convertible in this picture was stripped over 15 years ago, and you can see where I spent some time on the rust they didn't fully remove back then. The picture was taken just a couple days ago, but it has been in this storage trailer for all that time protected only with the rust inhibitor they applied. It only needs to be rinsed off to get rid of it, and they only claim 30 days protection for the rust inhibitor, and it did the job for 30 days plus another 15 +years. The stripper I'm referring to is American Metal Cleaning in Toledo Oh, and I have never had them damage anything. A bit expensive but they do excellent work---now.
METAL CLEANING, PAINT STRIPPING, DERUSTING, INDUSTRIAL CLEANING

The place in Wachula FL has this on their site;

FOR BEST RESULTS:
REMOVE ALL BODY PLUGS, WEATHER STRIPPING, EXCESSIVE UNDERCOATING, TACK STRIPS, etc...
Roofs of truck cabs and car bodies require drill holes to eliminate air bubbles on roof of vehicle

Personally, I don't see a problem with welding up a few holes drilled in the top that the stripper in Florida said would have to be drilled. His prices are extremely attractive, as of 2018, if this process is what you have in mind.

 

[LEE T]

I don't see the benefit of oven baking, and without knowing how high the temperature is set at, I'd worry that it might anneal the sheet metal.

Some of the strippers use an over to remove paint, undercoating, bondo, and anything elso that will melt. It gets a high pressure wash after that, then its dipped for rust removal. The over is set to rise slowly to 800 degrees, then slowly cool down. The key is heating it slowly, up and down, and doing the whole panel/car. I used an acid stripper that used an oven for years, and the only damage I ever had was an operator set my hood down too hard on the back corner of the hood as he put it in the oven. Thats when I started looking for another place.

 

[Granpa49!!]

Did the process you used damage that cowl seal? Do you have to remove the rust inhibitor before you prime it?

One part of me wants to get it dipped or oven cleaned and another part is saying "No". I might be using the long drive as an excuse to keep from having to make that decision, but if there was a facility close by I would be hard pressed not to go for it. When the GPS program says that it is a 10 hour drive that is if you drive straight thru and don't encounter any slowdowns. You can pretty well count on it being 12 hours and that is one way. Couple that with the fact that my truck gets 13 mpg and that is not an attractive scenario. Delivery plus pickup = 2 round trips and 2 x 1340 miles/13 mpg x $3.10/gal = $640.00 in gas plus two motel rooms and food. That is over a grand in expenses plus the stripping fee and does not include epoxy primer. The sandblast and epoxy prime option is one hour away and will run around $3200. I havent' committed yet but that is what I am leaning toward. It can't be as effective as oven baking nor chem dipping but I bet the majority of trifives running around today never got those treatments.

 

[LEE T]

That car I pictured is a 57, which doesn't have that seal, and I have never had a 55 or 56 body dipped. It only takes a fresh water rinse to get rid of the rust inhibitor.

Dipping is an expensive process, it just depends on how bad the rust is. I'm sure a lot of guys would like to have it done, but not at the expense of other things that are more important.

 

[TheHotrodHandyman]

It goes all the way across on the 55 and 56. I like this place in Florida because they don't use acid. My local stripped doesn't use acid either, although I complained to the owner a few years ago about not getting the parts totally clean, and she wasn't aware of that so I showed her. Now they keep stripping until all the rust is gone. The convertible in this picture was stripped over 15 years ago, and you can see where I spent some time on the rust they didn't fully remove back then. The picture was taken just a couple days ago, but it has been in this storage trailer for all that time protected only with the rust inhibitor they applied. It only needs to be rinsed off to get rid of it, and they only claim 30 days protection for the rust inhibitor, and it did the job for 30 days plus another 15 +years. The stripper I'm referring to is American Metal Cleaning in Toledo Oh, and I have never had them damage anything. A bit expensive but they do excellent work---now.
METAL CLEANING, PAINT STRIPPING, DERUSTING, INDUSTRIAL CLEANING

View attachment 385105

View attachment 385106


Personally, I don't see a problem with welding up a few holes drilled in the top that the stripper in Florida said would have to be drilled. His prices are extremely attractive, as of 2018, if this process is what you have in mind.

I only posted that for potential customers from here would see it. I personally have zero need to do this since I'm no longer taking on any jobs that would require getting this deep into and my remaining personal vehicles are all rust free.

 

[BO185]

I don't see the benefit of oven baking, and without knowing how high the temperature is set at, I'd worry that it might anneal the sheet metal.

Its not hot enough to damage the steel's strength in reality. There is a difference in oven heating it and a car on fire that is burning WAY hotter.

I've read a good bit of commentary on the process. It dosen't leave any chemical behind in the seams. However, if the ashes aren't completely removed you have a problem with that later on. It seems that no matter what the process, the key to success is the skill level of the operator. Sand Blasting can damage a car if not done correctly, chem dip can cause problems if not removed correctly, oven bake can also cause problems if not done correctly or cleaned properly afterwards. Nothing is 100% problem free and it all hinges upon the knowledge and skill level of the person doing the job.

Some of the strippers use an over to remove paint, undercoating, bondo, and anything elso that will melt. It gets a high pressure wash after that, then its dipped for rust removal. The over is set to rise slowly to 800 degrees, then slowly cool down. The key is heating it slowly, up and down, and doing the whole panel/car. I used an acid stripper that used an oven for years, and the only damage I ever had was an operator set my hood down too hard on the back corner of the hood as he put it in the oven. Thats when I started looking for another place.

Usually 800 is max you always set the bake off, temp to max temp needed to back off whats on it, one this saves money in natural gas, two is time less time in oven means more you can do, and three saves the part from any damage.

Most powder and auto paints cook off below 600*. I have used back off ovens for paint and powder for small things like hooks. Never liked them. Dipping them is way quicker too.

 

[Cabman]

I had my 57 4-door wagon stripped in June of 2021 at Metalworks in Eugene, Oregon. They are about 2-1/2 hours from me and do all the dipping for Kindig-It Design of Bitchin Rides fame (for whatever that's worth). I took the body, doors, hood, gate. etc. plus a ton of small parts (hinges, back seat hinges, fresh air ducts, brackets, anything metal I could remove). It cost me $3800 total. That said, I would do it again in a minute. My personal opinion of the negative opinions are: the vin tag on the door post doesn't necessarily need to be removed as it is stainless as someone mentioned, but the cowl tag is aluminum and will dissolve in the acid. Yes, I will have to re-attach them. I have picture documentation of the car from first day bought through current progress of restoration. If after this level of restoration. and I were to sell the car and someone questions the re-attached tags, frankly they are idiots and probably weren't interested in actually buying the car. It was mentioned that any factory rust protection in hard to reach areas can't be re-applied. True, but do you really think that the minimal rust protection applied 65 years ago is still doing anything? And are you planning to leave the car outside, expose it to large temp and humidity changes, drive it on semi frozen salt covered roads, etc. as when the car was first used? Damaging the panels from the post dip power wash? The typical pressures used are not sufficient to do that unless the panel is already weakened from time and exposure or unsupported. All they are doing is rinsing the acid and paint residue off. When I got the body back it was completely clean exposing poor previous bodywork, rust pinholes that were under paint that I would have never been aware of until they showed up in the future, showed the full extent of any rust so it could be properly and completely repaired, and saved me countless hours stripping the multiple layers of paint off the body. The only downsides in my opinion were: Cost. Sure I'd like to use that $3800 elsewhere in the restoration process as I am of average financial means. But I have leaned that MY time has a value, and I have to weigh out the cost against time saved, aggravation avoided, and does it increase the quality of the build. Another negative is that ALL seam sealer in the entire car is gone. But I rationalized that as an opportunity to really scrutinize the entire car, making sure that everything is seam sealed fully and properly. In all, as I said, I would not hesitate to strip a car again.

 

[Granpa49!!]

While mechanically stripping my car I removed seam sealer and the factory applied undercoating in some areas and found rust underneath and in some areas the metal was pristine. You just can't tell from looking at the seam before the sealer is removed. On the other hand, I haven't found anything but good metal under the factory applied sound absorbing material. I wsh there was a place like Metalworks near me.

 

[Rick_L]

Interesting dtscussion. So far nobody has posted what's different with the process between successful suppliers and suppliers whose processes have risk down the road. From what I can see in this discussion the difference is likely the thoroughness of the neutralization (plus to a lesser extent maybe some process things that are trade secrets).

There are 3 camps here.

• Those who are adamant to never chemically strip.
• Those who are adamant that it's the only way to do a quality job, especially on a high end job.
• Those in the middle and wonder what to do or whether to pay the premium.

 

[BO185]

I am in 4th camp media blast it, but I am bias.

You hit on key being trade secret which is the mix of the chemical as to what works best. They don’t give that up, can’t get a direct answers om that, but can be figured out. I have researched the body dipping alot and know the chemicals used but unsure of the concentration level. Which can be found via testing.

For my business the numbers just aren’t there for car dipping, time, tank cost, chem cost, and ability to produce just aren’t there. I can say $3-4k dip is a deal IMO. But I blast for well under half that. We blast 1-2 full bodies a week on avg on top of everything else vs it may take a week to dip on car (5 business days) So media blasting make more sense time wise for me. Provided the blaster is skilled.

 

[MetalWorks]

I know Metalworks (large high dollar restoshop) does it.....they have to remove the VIN plate when they do it. That in itself is a good reason to not do it. They were selling one of those high dollar resto's the other day and the vin was riveted back on.

That 55 you are referring to was not restored by MetalWorks, but by a gentleman in Albany, Oregon. As far as vin tags, they only need to be removed if the rivets are aluminum. As a MetalWorks employee, I can say that we have been dipping all of our high end build for over 20 years with absolutely zero paint issues. The dip shop also dips bodies for shops such as Kindig-It and Grave Yard Cars with only positive results. Sadly, lots of rumor spread regarding processes people really do not understand.

 

[Granpa49!!]

So when is Metal works going to open a branch in the Southeast?

 

[mr55/56]

That 55 you are referring to was not restored by MetalWorks, but by a gentleman in Albany, Oregon. As far as vin tags, they only need to be removed if the rivets are aluminum. As a MetalWorks employee, I can say that we have been dipping all of our high end build for over 20 years with absolutely zero paint issues. The dip shop also dips bodies for shops such as Kindig-It and Grave Yard Cars with only positive results. Sadly, lots of rumor spread regarding processes people really do not understand.

Then why did you put in the post that dipping was reason for the rivet's.

 

[MetalWorks]

Then why did you put in the post that dipping was reason for the rivet's.

We were not involved getting the 55 bodies dipped, but the dip shop will tell you that if the rivets are aluminum you will loose your tag during the dip process, so he may have played it safe and removed the tag instead of running the risk or loosing it, or some people will opt to remove the tag in order to properly body work and paint the door jam, or it maybe have already of been removed by a previous owner with the thought of dipping the car...I don't know for sure....but I was told it was removed for acid dipping. The vast majority of car bodies I observe when visiting dips shops and body shops that use acid dipping have their tags removed...

 

[mr55/56]

There is never a good reason for removing a VIN tag. It just creates issues down the road.

 

[Robert Haas]

There is never a good reason for removing a VIN tag. It just creates issues down the road.

If the cowl is rotten, and being replace like the car I am finishing, .....

 

[Rick_L]

If the tag has aluminum rivets it's a cowl tag, not a VIN tag. Big difference.

There are no rivets on a VIN tag - they are spot welded to the body.