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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What do you painters think about the above? My car's at the body shop and I had selected some Dupont Hot Hues colors for the final finish. The shop Mgr just called and told me Dupont is switching this line from Solvent to Water based and they're currently not available while they make the switch.

Would you do water-based paint now, early in the product's release cycle? If I get some solvent based now, and need to touchup or whatever later with a water-based, what's the chance it will be the same tint?

Thanks,
Charlie
 

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If not in a hurry I'd wait it out. A just watched an Edisode of "Musclecar" on Spike TV and they made it seem that the colors of the waterbase are more brilliant and other than flash time in between coats they are vey similar...Goodluck !!
 

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What do you painters think about the above? My car's at the body shop and I had selected some Dupont Hot Hues colors for the final finish. The shop Mgr just called and told me Dupont is switching this line from Solvent to Water based and they're currently not available while they make the switch.

Would you do water-based paint now, early in the product's release cycle? If I get some solvent based now, and need to touchup or whatever later with a water-based, what's the chance it will be the same tint?

Thanks,
Charlie

Charlie I have a buddy (body Shop) in Arkansas that dumped all of his solvent based DuPont and went with Water Based from PPG. I was up there a few weeks back and he stated that it is overwhelming how good they are.

It's only a matter of time B4 that's all is available anyway.

I saw some of his work and I can't see any difference, but I only stayed in a Holiday Inn Express once, so my expertise is a bit off.
 

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i believe the waterbase will fade away as low voc seems to be better. there are many problems with waterbase. first is equipment. you must have a lot of air movement in the booth to cure it. if not you can have problems later. i talk with many painters from the west coast who use it. some like it , some just put up with it . personally i will retire before switching to water. but then dupont is not on my list of products i like. they constantly change and discontinue lines especially clears. i use prospray base and spi for everything else .
i also make sure i have 2 qrts left on any job . and put all my color in qrt cans as soon as it is mixed. better chance of a good match later. the last qrt in a gal usually does not match .
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Kind of disappointing to be at this for almost 9 years, FINALLY get ready to have it painted, FINALLY get down to at least (4) choices, and now I have to wait for this evolution in painting technology to play out. :eek:

I think the water-based is here to stay due to environmental concerns. Whatever starts in CA always seems to make it's way east. Since GM is using water-based now, I guess it's beyond the testing phase, but I remember the issues GM had with Blues/Silvers back early 80's I guess it was when they tried something new and the paint didn't last.

I guess the other question I need to ask the paint shop is how comfortable they are spraying it...

Thanks for the replies,
Charlie
 

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"I guess the other question I need to ask the paint shop is how comfortable they are spraying it..."

Those are key words. You should generally avoid having someone use materials they aren't familiar with or comfortable with.

I wouldn't worry too much about how Detroit does it either. They haven't used the same materials or processes that the refinish industry uses for many years now. Part of that applies even back to 55-57 paint. You also said you aren't using an OEM color anyway.

Last thing, the base coat still gets cleared with the same acrylic urethane clear you'd normally use with a "recent old school" paint job.
 

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Waterborne is the new wave of the future. That being said, I would really think about getting ahold of something similar that you like in PPG. Waterborne should spot-blend well with solvent based paints, the only problem is that most waterborne products are getting pushed onto the shops first. Unless you live in California, i doubt you will be able to get ahold of water-based paint yourself. That step is probably 3-4 years away. My sugggestion would be to find something in PPG vibrance, or maybe even House of Kolor, and have your shop use that.
 

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the corporate mandate for waterbase keeps getting pushed back. why ? because the majors are developing low voc base . do not buy into this rumor that all solvent base paint will be a thing of the past. not going to happen . if it were they would not be spending the r&d money on low voc base. dupont has no color that can not be matched by anyone else.
 

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i believe the waterbase will fade away as low voc seems to be better. there are many problems with waterbase. first is equipment. you must have a lot of air movement in the booth to cure it. if not you can have problems later. i talk with many painters from the west coast who use it. some like it , some just put up with it . personally i will retire before switching to water. but then dupont is not on my list of products i like. they constantly change and discontinue lines especially clears. i use prospray base and spi for everything else .
i also make sure i have 2 qrts left on any job . and put all my color in qrt cans as soon as it is mixed. better chance of a good match later. the last qrt in a gal usually does not match .
They did mention on "Musclecar" that it takes longer to cure. I would imagine inturn the risk of dirt in your paint..greater.
 

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yes it does. most shops have to buy air trees , looks like hair dryers on a tree. you need a lot of air movement. we have heard how we would be forced to go water since the late 70's. might happen on the west coast but the majors are spending a ton of money on low voc solvent base.
one thing i never do is pay attention to tv shows. not long ago 2 guys garage suggested wiping down bare metal with atf . no way i'm putting something high in silicone on bare steel. i would use acid first, at least it can be neutralized .
 

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Not a big fan of Dupont paints,the shop I work in uses Sikkens.I've heard a few delamination story's about Dupont waterbased base.Could be poor application or product,never know but I would be nervous about spraying that on my car.Ask the shop if they have any other options as far as using another brand instead of waiting.Just my 2 cents good luck with your car.Bry
 

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Same thing here in florida, they are going water at some of the shops. Thats what my ppg rep told me just like california. Unless you have a booth starting in january you cant get solvent based paint. At least at that shop. Good thing i have most of my paint. Sounds like there not really sure whats going to happen. Big brother always taking the fun out of everything!

Did i read right? Is it true they still spray solvent base clear? over the water base color?
 

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Yes. The only thing that is water-based right now is the base. Some manufactures are starting to come out with water-based clear and primers, but those are not mandatory. PPG seems to be the leader in waterborne by a mile. There are a few shops in Wisconsin that have switched to Waterborne. It is not regulated here yet, but these guys just want to get ahead of the curb. Can anybody here from out west tell us if the average walk-in customer can purchase waterborne at their local parts house?
 

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PPG is definately ahead by a mile, they should though. PPG has had water based paint since 1990! This is not new technology for them.

To clear up a couple things, the water base does not cure, it dries. Also, there really isn't a need for any additional equipment unless you are worried about speed. I have painted it in my home garage with no special equipment whatso ever. It will dry on it's own. The addition of air blowers will definatley speed up the process though, but that can be done with a $50 hand held blower. However, a shop trying to paint 10 cars a day will most certainly want/need additional equipment.

First off everyone should be clear on one thing. The government mandate is NOT water based paint. It IS 3.5 voc or less for the base coat. If a paint company can get their solvent base down to that than they can keep it. Who knows when the law will go into effect nation wide? I don't see it happening for a long time. I can still by laquer at the local PPG store where I work, at the same store I can also buy water base over the counter. I currently have 15 shops that have made the switch to water in my area. They all love it!! I am a PPG tech. rep. for a huge local jobber. We are doing really well with it.

Glenn
 

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Ok guys, remember when two stage paint came out , nobody liked it ,said it was too hard to use etc. I have a good friend that has a shop and has changed over to water base , he loves it . The only problem I see right now for us is the have no old car color codes yet . Some of you guys are lucky you don,t live in a tree hugger state like mine. As of Jan. 1 2012 you won't be able to buy solvent base paint. Don
 

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there is work going on right now with low voc base. which will be much easier on the industry . i will wait for it. water is going to very tuff for the diy guy in his shop. ok if you have 100k booth but is going to be a problem for guys shooting in wet states in the open. as said above it's not about solvent but rather the voc's.
 
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