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Ford 9" Housing Options

6K views 41 replies 14 participants last post by  Rick_L 
#1 ·
Open for constructive feedback:

Objective: I want to maximize my wheel/tire width with my recent mini-tub and leaf spring relocation modification (centered under frame rails)complete. Specifically, I DO NOT want to have a large back space to the inside, rather I want the wheel to have the deepest dish possible to the outside.
I'm told with this mod I can get as much as a 13" tire width underneath measured inflated side wall to side wall.

Goal: I can't get there from here with my original 55 housing. So, either a GM 10 or 12 bolt or Ford 9" modified preferred. What I can't seem to get my hands around is which specific aftermarket housing I need with so many out there being sold. Which direction do I lean...one that came out of a truck or car? Which years, etc. I realize the tube will need to be cut and axles either cut or fabricated specfically for my application.

Input...thanks
 
#2 ·
First, get your hands on the wheel and tire spreadsheet, that will let you determine what you need to do based on your inputs for tires, wheel backspace, tub width, etc.

That said, I have a Versailles 9" axle with 58.50" across the wheel mounting surfaces. It works out great with the 8.5" x 4.75" backspace wheels and the 275 tires I have. Lots of clearance inside and outside. You may want a little narrower on the axle if you're serious about a deeper dish than I have.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Yes, Lincoln Versailles, 1977-1981. It has factory rear discs, and is a true 9". They have been popular for a long time, so they are getting harder to find. The same year Granadas and Monarchs (but not all) can also have this axle, usually with drum brakes.

Other cars/trucks that have a Ford 9" this narrow are 57-59 Ford cars, early Broncos (up to about 77), and certain some early Mustangs. Obviously you are competing with Bronco and Mustang restorers for those.

My tires are 10.8" wide at the widest part. I have room for 13". That would be a 315 or 335 tire.
 
#7 ·
Rick L

Noted thanks! One last question...how much dish are you showing? I suppose this really depends on style of wheel, etc.
Finally, is it true to say the less back space in a custom wheel is directly proportional to what's showing on the rim face. But, then again what are the trade offs!
 
#8 ·
If you are going to get a rear end and use it as is then you willhave to fit the wheels to the rear end and car. If you want to narrow a rear end then you can get whatever wheels you want and then cut the rear end to fit the wheels. If you are going to go with narrowing a rear end then you must get the wheels and tires first and put them under the car, then measure between the mounting surfaces to get the total rear end width.

If youa re going to narrow a factory Ford 9 inch then there are a few things that you need to consider. The truck housings usually have thicker 3 1/8 inch axle tubes. The full size car housings are harder to narrow because the tubes are flattened on top for some reason. The housings with the rounded center are weaker, but better looking. The housings with the long tapered center are stronger, but not as pretty and harder to mount ladder bars and 4 link brackets. There are many different 9 inch Ford housings. There are about 4 to 6 different types of housing ends and at least 3 different axle bearings. If you have a 9 inch narrowed for your car you need to find someone who knows what they are doing to put it all together for you.
 
#12 ·
This is only the tip of the ice berg on difference in 9 inch Furds. I used to buy every one that came into a local scrap yard $20 each. 6 bangers trucks might be 31 spline & V8s 28 spline and dont forget the LIncoln/Camperspecial 9 3/8 that looks like an N case.
 
#9 ·
options

there are several ford 9 in. varietys to choose from I think there is still a page dedicated to explaining the differences. i belive i googled kevins stang and at his site i down loaded like a 10 page article on the differences between the ford nine inch cases, which are most desireable and which are the strongest. theres also another article by a George Nenadovich called how to find and remove 8.5" gm posi carriers, If your not going to throw a boat load of h.p. to it and like the idea of staying 100% chevy the 8.5 should hold its own and probably alot cheaper theese days than the elusive nodular case ford 9"
 
#11 ·
I think this is what you are after 10" wheel with 3 1/2 inch backspace which is a 6 1/2 inch dish. I don`t think you can get a smaller backspace than this on a 10 inch rim if so it would not be much smaller.
I have 29x12.5 Mickey Thompson Sportsman tyres which are about 13" wide.
I use a 9" diff with thirty one spline Moser axles which is 53" wide and that put`s the wheels right in the middle of a minitub.
If I where you I would try and use a 9" diff with the large bearings as the axles are a bit thicker between the bearing and the axle flange where they are prone to breaking when a wheel with a very deep dish is used.
Also if you get a 9" out of an F100 with 31 spline axles you could allways shorten the axles that diff comes with and redrill to your wheel stud pattern.
I think all 31 spline axles can be shortened where as 28 spline can`t or don`t shorten so good.



 
#14 ·
Definitely try and find a "big bearing" 9'', preferably truck, or the Versaille or some Granada/Monarchs...all Ford products. Even if you can't find the disc brake Versaille there are aftermarket kits for the "big bearing" axles available at far less expense and work to convert than using the small bearing axles.
 
#15 ·
9.5 Ford

What is the general consequences here....Biggest Ford made w/31 spline axles.
Out of a late sixties Lincoln. Not sure what length overall is at this point. Will look at it this weekend. Seller asking 375.00 dols. complete unit w/drums I believe.
Is this unit supportable in todays aftermarket?
 
#16 ·
Any 9" is supportable. That said, the configuration determines the value.

Likely, the 60s Lincoln has a wide axle, which will need narrowing. I wouldn't give that kind of money for a wide drum brake axle assembly.

Just so we're not confused, the Versailles is not a big car like most Lincolns. In the late 70s, it was the competitor to the Cadillac Seville if you're familiar with them. I don't think there was any Lincoln or Continental branded car that was small in the 60s.

I also wonder whether a 60s Lincoln was ever equipped with 31 spline axles, though I guess they could have been.

That's another whole subject on 9" rears. The Versailles stuff and most others like pickups and 57-59 cars have 28 spline axles. Only the high performance stuff had the 31 spline axles. But a 31 spline 3rd member will bolt right into any Ford 9" housing. Then all you have to come up with is the axles. So there are many combinations and many choices. And many $$$ if you have to have a certain deal.
 
#17 ·
I wouldn't use a full size car rear end if you are going to narrow one. The axle tubes are flat on top and they have a lot of brackets that have to be cut off and smoothed out. Use a truck housing. They are easy to find and easier to modify. They have the large axle bearings and many of them have 31 spline axles. You never know what you are going to get in a 9 inch. I've seen 302 trucks with 31 spline axles and I've seen 390 trucks with 28 spline axles. The late '60s big Lincolns had the 9 3/8 rear end. You do not want one of those. They look very much like a 9 inch, but there are no parts available for them.
 
#19 ·
1956 Sedan Delivery

Could you post a few pictures of the rear wheel/tire set-up? Also, what year housing do you have and is it out of a car or truck, additionally, from your dimensions @ 53" flange to flange you obviously had it narrowed...is this correct?
Lastly, are you running discs with this?
 
#24 ·
The housing is an F100 that has had new axle tubes fitted which are thick wall and 3 1/4 diameter I would say it is pretty heavy duty.
The overall length is 53" from drum to drum.
Not much use giving a housing length as there is to many variations in brakes for these housings.
I am actually using finned 11" drum brakes.
I have the housing out of the car as I just painted it yesterday and I will get some photos of it.

I also have a 56 four door that is 59" long from drum to drum and it is using Cragar dragstars that have a 6 1/2 inch backspace and that wheel is also right in the middle of the tub. So thats is one backspace extreme to the other I know that this is a strange tyre fitment but Mickey Thompson make a 15.5x29x15 Tyre that is made to go on a 10" wheel and I have had them on this car and that fit quite good and they would rub a bit in some driveways but not to much. I am sure that there would be cars on this site that have tyres that are much smaller that would rub more.
 
#23 ·
#22 ·
I have a 275 tire, and could go to a 335 tire with the right backspacing.

The setup is this.

- 42 across the tubs, and the frame
- 72 inside the quarter panels
- that means there's a 15" space for a tire on each side

-58.5" across the axle
-8.5" wheel with 4.75" backspace (0 offset)
- 275 tire - 10.83" wide
- 69.33" across the tires on the outside
- 1.34" clearance fender to tire
 
#26 ·
Around this part of the world, they were $300-450 about 10 years ago, and asking prices have been rising since. The ones I'd see at the top end of that range would already have a 3.25, 3.50, or 3.70 gear and a "normal" looking u-joint flange.

They've been known by hot rodders as an easy disc brake 9" swap for years, and they are the right width for most 50s-60s cars with wide but not super wide street tires. And lots of swap meet sellers have standing orders to buy them when they come in with the salvage yards. And let's face it, there's not too many late 70s/early 80s cars left. So prices are high, but they can't go much higher, alternatives are cheaper.

If you are looking for one, make sure it's as complete as possible, because things like caliper brackets and other brake hardware are no long made. You can still get rebuilt calipers and new rotors. Caliper core prices are high.

They have 28 spline axles. They also come with a flange instead of a yoke, as the cars they came in had some kind of constant velocity u-joint. (See the Ebay photos.) Amost all had a 2.47 open differential. You can swap in any 9" Ford 3rd member.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Rick L

Offered on e-bay - out of a 1977 Versailles with the disc set-up and they're throwing in the driveshaft.

Quote from seller - "This is a very narrow Ford 9 inch. Bolt Pattern is 5 lug on 4 1/2". Measures 58-1/4" wide WMS to WMS."

Anyway good find??????

How involved/expensive is the process in having the axles drilled for a Chevy bolt pattern?
 
#28 ·
You could get new axles from places like Moser with the Chevy bolt pattern, pay a machine shop to redrill the axles OR just use the Ford axles and get Ford pattern wheels...that'd be my choice...who's gonna know the diference, not like some guy is gonna be measuring your bolt pattern:D and on a resto rod the wheels won't interchange anyway you aren't going to be putting the fronts on the rear. Oh yeah keep it all Chevrolet:rolleyes:
 
#29 ·
Small difference for such a hugh gain

Gentleman,

How does the difference in dimensions (WMS) between my stock chevy axle @ 60" vs. the ford 9" Versailles style @ 58-1/4" really change the geometry.

In another words were only talking about 1-1/8" per side and this alone provides a myraid of wheel and tire option widths not afforded with the chevy axle....am I missing something here?
 
#32 ·
Gentleman,

How does the difference in dimensions (WMS) between my stock chevy axle @ 60" vs. the ford 9" Versailles style @ 58-1/4" really change the geometry.

In another words were only talking about 1-1/8" per side and this alone provides a myraid of wheel and tire option widths not afforded with the chevy axle....am I missing something here?
Not 1 1/8" per side 7/8 per side equals 1 3/4"
 
#30 · (Edited)
I'm having a new diff made right now for a 4 link conversion in my car. Don't quote me but I think it was 56.5 side to side on the diff, and my wheels are 10" Centerlines with 3.375 back spacing. These wheels are closer to 11" in total width and I am using Mickey Thompson 28 x 12.5 ET Streets which have a 13.20 section width once inflated.

The company building my diff took the tire and wheel specs and ordered the axles and tubes measured to fit. I was told the maximum tire width after installing their mini tubs would be 13.40 and that I could go 12" rim but that would be a real tight fit. Decided to stick with the 10's and got the Convo Pro wheels noted above. Here's a picture of the rears to show you the dish. If you want more width, then you're gonna need to section the frame and fab bigger tubs.
 
#31 ·
"In another words were only talking about 1-1/8" per side and this alone provides a myraid of wheel and tire option widths not afforded with the chevy axle....am I missing something here?"

If you look at the numbers I posted you'll see the difference. If I had a 60" wide axle housing, I'd need 3/4" more backspacing to get to the same place. This can be done. But it's an odd backspacing (5.5") and that's not an "off the shelf" backspace with many wheels. I could lose a little clearance and use a 5.25" backspacing which might be available, but the wheel/tire might be harder to get on and off the car. And I'd have no flexibility for anything bigger, because the situation would just get worse with a bigger tire or a 10" wheel.
 
#33 ·
Wow, I remember trying to sort this all out. Yikes.

Don't the Versailles rear ends have tappered axles, so they can't really be narrowed? So they are the weaker 28 spline AND tapered? And they don't use the big Torino axle bearings, and you'll need to buy a different center section because the Versailles rears didn't come with an N case or decent rear end ratios. As Rick said, the Versailles calipers and hats are expensive too.


Do yourself a favor! Add up the cost of a junk yard rear end, all the bearings and seals, axles... time spent finding a posi center with gears you want at junk yards or swap meets... time spent running axles to a machine shop, getting the center section rebuilt or doing it yourself...

Next, call someone like John's 9 inch Ford Factory, Moser or Currie. Price an axle housing with aftermarket axles. Get a separate price for the brakes and a separate price for the center section.

I'm willing to bet that buying just the axle housing, brakes and axles will be VERY cost effective compared to rebuilding junk yard / used parts. Then you just need to figure out what your time is worth and what you want to do about a center section.
 
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