How much primer to paint a 55

718 Views 50 Replies 11 Participants Last post by Old Buzzard, 4 d ago

tibalda

Discussion Starter · 6 d ago

I am getting ready to order primer and I am trying to determine how much I need. After getting an education on this site about using epoxy base and then a urethane primer on top to facilitate sanding later on since I plan to paint my car one part at a time over a long time period. My car is a 55 2DR HT two tone. I will be using single stage paint and keeping the colors which is India Ivory and Dusk Rose (white on top).

One question is how much of each primer is needed and a second is what color primer should I get. I assume white for the India Ivory - but what for the Dusk Rose? Is it typical to apply two tone primer for two tone cars?

Thanks for any help you can offer.
Art

Reactions: 1

21 - 40 of 51 Posts

Robert Haas

· #21 · 5 d ago

tibalda said:
Sorry for the million questions - but I always seem to catch something you stated that I feel is really important. When you say to stay away from skim coats of body filler or glaze - I was thinking I would be adding a skim coat of body filler to the entire car over the urethane primer for the purpose of blocking and trying to have no more than 1/8" of thickness. I was thinking the high build urethane was to fill the sanding scratches in the filler or grinding marks in metal. Do I have that wrong?
Art

Art, skim coating has become the norm on many high end paint jobs. It is a lot easier to get a lazer straight panel with mud then it is with quality metal finishing. Done properly it nets an amazing finish and is durable as long as the depth of filler is under .025" thick. It is another story entirely when it comes to making repairs. A skim coated car is a nightmare to repair.

Reactions: 2

Shadetree55

· #22 · 5 d ago

ETriggs said:
That’s what antique tractors get painted with, not a good car.

well, I don't have a good car, I have a mediocre car that definitely has its flaws that I am okay with as long as it's mechanically dependable. I spent what I could afford on the body to make it just what it is going to be--a driver. I'd rather spend the bigger bucks on safety and reliability.

Reactions: 3

55wagoncrazy

· #23 · 5 d ago

tibalda said:
Sorry for the million questions - but I always seem to catch something you stated that I feel is really important. When you say to stay away from skim coats of body filler or glaze - I was thinking I would be adding a skim coat of body filler to the entire car over the urethane primer for the purpose of blocking and trying to have no more than 1/8" of thickness. I was thinking the high build urethane was to fill the sanding scratches in the filler or grinding marks in metal. Do I have that wrong?
Art

Not If you are Kindigit Design......But I have no idea how long their paint jobs last with all that body filler. I have seen horror stories of this type of fast work.
I on the other hand, 95% of the time, do my body filler work over the primers. I have found it just works better for me. I think of high build primer as a more
uniform applied body filler. I apply 5 coats and then #6 is tinted. Let it set for 3-5 days and block away. If I need to use body filler I do it right over the
primer. Block that and repeat with 5 fresh coats. You can even spot apply it to any area you need, and not the whole door, or fender or hood. My 55 convertible was painted 30+ years ago with this method and it look the same today as when it was cut and buffed the first time.

Reactions: 2

ETriggs

· #24 · 5 d ago

Shadetree55 said:
well, I don't have a good car, I have a mediocre car that definitely has its flaws that I am okay with as long as it's mechanically dependable. I spent what I could afford on the body to make it just what it is going to be--a driver. I'd rather spend the bigger bucks on safety and reliability.

What brand paint did you use? There are some that are better than others. If it’s the stuff from TCP Global, then I’ve heard decent things about that stuff.

Shadetree55

· #25 · 5 d ago

ETriggs said:
What brand paint did you use? There are some that are better than others. If it’s the stuff from TCP Global, then I’ve heard decent things about that stuff.

PPG

Custer55

· #26 · 5 d ago

An option to doing a skim coat of body filler on the whole car is polyester primer, which is bassically sprayable body filler. I used Featherfill G2 when I repainted my roof a few years back and it worked good for me. You can tell it is body filler by the way it smells after spraying it.

tibalda

Discussion Starter · #27 · 5 d ago (Edited)

55wagoncrazy said:
Not If you are Kindigit Design......But I have no idea how long their paint jobs last with all that body filler. I have seen horror stories of this type of fast work.
I on the other hand, 95% of the time, do my body filler work over the primers. I have found it just works better for me. I think of high build primer as a more
uniform applied body filler. I apply 5 coats and then #6 is tinted. Let it set for 3-5 days and block away. If I need to use body filler I do it right over the
primer. Block that and repeat with 5 fresh coats. You can even spot apply it to any area you need, and not the whole door, or fender or hood. My 55 convertible was painted 30+ years ago with this method and it look the same today as when it was cut and buffed the first time.

ok now I think I get it. I mistakenly considered high build primer as just a thick primer - but if I understand correctly it is more of an application of a "glaze" like product whose thickness is based on the number of coats that are applied. I will read more up on it. This is another wow moment for me. Forgive my laziness but I think I miss the old bare metal, filler, lacquer primer, red lead, lacquer primer and lacquer paint days. That approach might not have lasted - but it sure seemed a lot easier

tibalda

Discussion Starter · #28 · 5 d ago

Shadetree55 said:
well, I don't have a good car, I have a mediocre car that definitely has its flaws that I am okay with as long as it's mechanically dependable. I spent what I could afford on the body to make it just what it is going to be--a driver. I'd rather spend the bigger bucks on safety and reliability.

I think you sell yourself short and are too critical of your workmanship. I don't think I will show you my car when I am done because your standards are too high

.

tibalda

Discussion Starter · #29 · 5 d ago

Custer55 said:
An option to doing a skim coat of body filler on the whole car is polyester primer, which is bassically sprayable body filler. I used Featherfill G2 when I repainted my roof a few years back and it worked good for me. You can tell it is body filler by the way it smells after spraying it.

It is starting to register to me now. I think I have seen too many car fix it programs. Is polyester primer and high build primer the same? How thick can it be - is it really just used to take out scratches or can it be thick enough to make up for hammer marks when using a hammer and dolly to straighten metal?

Thanks,
Art

Shadetree55

· #30 · 5 d ago

tibalda said:
I think you sell yourself short and are too critical of your workmanship. I don't think I will show you my car when I am done because your standards are too high .

my standards on this car's paint job are so low a snake couldn't crawl under. Trust me. It's wavy, has some fisheye in it and even a couple sags in it. It's a garage paint job, no booth and the best I can say about it is it's red and white and none of that junk will be noticed at 75 MPH down the road. Truthfully, I do NOT want it to be something I'm scared to death it might get a ding or a scratch. It's going to get rained on, maybe even snowed on. Hell, I might even see a gravel or dirt road I just have to go down.

Reactions: 2

Custer55

· #31 · 5 d ago

They are not the same. Google the specs on each to see the real differences which will vary by the brand. The polyester primer should give more build though. Obviously the better your metal work is the better, as you need less body filler and primer that way. No product is a substitute for good prep work. On my current 39 Ford project I found spots where the body filler nearly a half inch thick. It didn't take that much hammer and dolly work to get it to just needing a skim coat of body filler, and I still just consider myself a novice at metal work.

ETriggs

· #32 · 5 d ago

Shadetree55 said:
PPG

Ahhh, well that’s gonna be good stuff. I just always have flashbacks of that stuff from Ace Hardware, I guess that’s what I had in mind when you mentioned enamel.

Reactions: 1

Shadetree55

· #33 · 5 d ago

ETriggs said:
Ahhh, well that’s gonna be good stuff. I just always have flashbacks of that stuff from Ace Hardware, I guess that’s what I had in mind when you mentioned enamel.

I can actually turn out good work. Not show quality to some's standards but learned from my first father-in-law who was one of the best auto body guys I ever met. I just literally did not want that much effort in the job. I didn't have big bucks to throw at it and still don't but I'll have a fun driver when finished with less than 12 grand in it.

Reactions: 1

tibalda

Discussion Starter · #34 · 5 d ago

Custer55 said:
They are not the same. Google the specs on each to see the real differences which will vary by the brand. The polyester primer should give more build though. Obviously the better your metal work is the better, as you need less body filler and primer that way. No product is a substitute for good prep work. On my current 39 Ford project I found spots where the body filler nearly a half inch thick. It didn't take that much hammer and dolly work to get it to just needing a skim coat of body filler, and I still just consider myself a novice at metal work.

At a minimum I need to address my Frankenstein welds - I would imagine that would need filler. I plan to do more research to get a better understanding of the high build/ polyester primer.

Thanks.
Art

ETriggs

· #35 · 5 d ago

Shadetree55 said:
I can actually turn out good work. Not show quality to some's standards but learned from my first father-in-law who was one of the best auto body guys I ever met. I just literally did not want that much effort in the job. I didn't have big bucks to throw at it and still don't but I'll have a fun driver when finished with less than 12 grand in it.

You’re certainly way ahead of me on that one, I have a ways to go in a short amount of time and I’ve spent waaaaaay too much money on it.

tibalda

Discussion Starter · #36 · 5 d ago

Shadetree55 said:
I can actually turn out good work. Not show quality to some's standards but learned from my first father-in-law who was one of the best auto body guys I ever met. I just literally did not want that much effort in the job. I didn't have big bucks to throw at it and still don't but I'll have a fun driver when finished with less than 12 grand in it.

I think I need lessons from you on doing a project in a financially responsible way.

Reactions: 2

Custer55

· #37 · 5 d ago

tibalda said:
At a minimum I need to address my Frankenstein welds - I would imagine that would need filler. I plan to do more research to get a better understanding of the high build/ polyester primer.

Thanks.
Art

Yes, those areas will need body filler first. The fiberglass reinforced filler is good over welds or where the filler may end up a bit thicker. Get everything as straight as you can with the body filler, then use the high build or poly primer to fine tune things for your final finish. 80 to 90 percent of a good paint job is all the work you do before spraying the color coats.

Reactions: 1

BamaNomad

· #38 · 5 d ago (Edited)

There's no such thing as perfect ... in anything (except that which God made) ... and for our stuff, Good Enuf varies with the individual..

How long do you want to spend priming and sanding? Do you ever want to drive the finished car?

Reactions: 1

Bitchin'57

· #39 · 5 d ago

tibalda said:
Sorry for the million questions - but I always seem to catch something you stated that I feel is really important. When you say to stay away from skim coats of body filler or glaze - I was thinking I would be adding a skim coat of body filler to the entire car over the urethane primer for the purpose of blocking and trying to have no more than 1/8" of thickness. I was thinking the high build urethane was to fill the sanding scratches in the filler or grinding marks in metal. Do I have that wrong?
Art

Everybody has their own way of doing body work. There is no "one perfect way". It's perfectly OK to skim the panels with body filler, especially if you have wavy or otherwise imperfect panels. I did that on my '57. After skim coating, I shaped it with 40 grit on an 11 o 12 inch long block. When I start getting close to hitting metal, I switch to 120 grit. then I lightly hit it with 220, and shoot 2 or 3 coats of high build primer, let it dry, fog on a guide coat, and refine the panel from there.

One last thing. You can get all the advice in the world on here, but you have to get out there and start doing it. Focus on one panel at a time. Its not rocket science, and don't worry about making a mistake in the body work, because whatever you did wrong is totally fixable.

Reactions: 3

tibalda

Discussion Starter · #40 · 5 d ago

Bitchin'57 said:
Everybody has their own way of doing body work. There is no "one perfect way". It's perfectly OK to skim the panels with body filler, especially if you have wavy or otherwise imperfect panels. I did that on my '57. After skim coating, I shaped it with 40 grit on an 11 o 12 inch long block. When I start getting close to hitting metal, I switch to 120 grit. then I lightly hit it with 220, and shoot 2 or 3 coats of high build primer, let it dry, fog on a guide coat, and refine the panel from there.

One last thing. You can get all the advice in the world on here, but you have to get out there and start doing it. Focus on one panel at a time. Its not rocket science, and don't worry about making a mistake in the body work, because whatever you did wrong is totally fixable.

Thanks for your response. I realize there are different ways of doing things and there are multiple ways of doing it right. As I novice I would at least have an approach before I get started and I am still not 100% sure how I will approach it. I don't have the skill to do perfect metal work so I expect to need some filler. I do plan to do a panel at a time - although I was planning to do the blocking across the whole car to level the body across panels.

Right now my thinking is as follows:

Strip paint
Do metal work
Epoxy prime (Tamco DTA epoxy)
Urethane primer (Orion 2K DTM Primer)
Body fill where needed (USC All Metal filler) - especially my Frankenstein weld joints. Use good waterproof filler to take care of any pin holes
Urethane primer (Orion 2K DTM Primer)
I am thinking to do a light blocking step here to identify areas that might require more filler that I didn't pick up by hand
Polyester primer
Block
Fill significant low spots with glaze if too deep for just polyester primer (USC Icing glazing and finishing putty)
Seal
Paint

I appreciate that some don't use epoxy and go straight to urethane DTM primer. I also understand the point to stay away from glaze, but since I don't have the skills, I will find low spots when I block and need something to fill them. All that said - does that seem reasonable at a high level?

Thanks,
Art

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