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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
NO QUESTION, I'm going to get a lot flak over this, but, here goes.
For some reason, over MANY years, the 3sp and 3spOD transmissions that were used in 55-65 Chevys have FREQUENTLY been referred to as a Muncie ------------------- WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!
They are Saginaw 3sp and 3spOD transmissions.
Below is a 55-57 style Saginaw3sp and a 55-57 style Saginaw 3spOD.
The regular (NON OD) 55-57 3spds had the LONG tail housing and NO provision for a mount on the tail housing (ONLY Corvette tail housings had a transmission mount and 3 threaded holes for a floor shifter).
MOST, repeat, MOST 58-65 Saginaw 3spds had the short tail housing and ALL had a transmission mount on the tail housing.

The 3rd picture is a Muncie.
The 2 bottom pictures are Borg-Warner T-10s (cast iron, 57-60/alum 61-63).
 

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This post form the guy who says the BW Super T-10 came out in 75 is confusing. I thought the Saginaw came out in about 65/66. I had one in a 67 Camaro in HS with a 250 on the tree.
 

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This post form the guy who says the BW Super T-10 came out in 75 is confusing. I thought the Saginaw came out in about 66/67. I had one in a Camaro in HS with a 250 on the tree.
A good friend of mine bought his first new car 66 malibu 300hp 327 with the 4speed saginaw exploded it twice in the first few months he had the car swapped in a muncie pretty sure 66 was the first year for the saginaw it was a very weak trans from what i've seen way back then ok if you don't beat on it i suppose
 

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Tom is referring to the ongoing argument as to whether the three speed trans that came with the 55-57 cars is a Saginaw or a Muncie 318 (or the respective over drive variants). For certain, what is described as the late Saginaw three speed arrived mid 60s as did the Saginaw four speed. But there seems to be no real consensus as to exactly who made the little peanut three speeds original to the trifive cars.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
This post form the guy who says the BW Super T-10 came out in 75 is confusing. I thought the Saginaw came out in about 66/67. I had one in a Camaro in HS with a 250 on the tree.
The 55=65 Saginaw 3spds were very similar and to the novice, they were the same because of external appearances. They WERE NOT synchronized in 1st gear.
Then in 66, the "new" Saginaw 3sp was fully synchronized and no longer resembled the 55-65 Saginaw 3sp (kinda looked more like a 4sp).
Also as mentioned, the CAST IRON Saginaw 4sp was introduced in 66 and used up through 72-3 behind LOW-PERF engines. BASICALLY, anything stronger than a 300hp engine got the Muncie.

My earlier comment about the Super T-10 replacing the Muncie in 75 --------------------------- I SHOULD HAVE SAID THAT BY 75, THE MUNCIE HAD BEEN REPLACED BY THE SUPER T-10. Just one example, the 74 Corvettes had a Muncie and the 75 Corvettes got a Super T-10. There MAY, repeat, MAY have been a transition period during that time which is not totally clear. But the bottom line is that the Muncie was used in the earlier 70s and it was replaced by the Super T-10 for the later 70s.
And then even later, there was a T-10 4sp that also had an overdrive. But I'm not sure just what years (early-mid80s???) it was used. From what I've understood, it was not the most ideal 4sp.
 

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I got that after rereading the post I was mostly commenting on when the 4 speed saginaw was first available as I remember my buddies new marina blue 66 chevelle beautiful car I've also heard the three speeds called muncie but never really knew one way or another
 

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The fully synchronized Saginaw 3 speed came out in 66. In 69 or 70 I put one in my 55 to replace the original 3 speed. The original 3 speeds weren't doing it for me, but I had no money so I bought a broken 66 3 speed from a guy who had a 66 Chevelle. Cluster gear teeth and 2nd gear teeth were missing. Rounded up some repair parts and it did do better than the original transmission and it had the synchronized first gear. It lasted until I could get a Muncie 4 speed.

I think the Super T-10 came out in 84 or 85 with the overdrive on the back of it. It was called a Doug Nash 4+3. Not the best overdrive setup.
 

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The fully synchronized Saginaw 3 speed came out in 66. In 69 or 70 I put one in my 55 to replace the original 3 speed. The original 3 speeds weren't doing it for me, but I had no money so I bought a broken 66 3 speed from a guy who had a 66 Chevelle. Cluster gear teeth and 2nd gear teeth were missing. Rounded up some repair parts and it did do better than the original transmission and it had the synchronized first gear. It lasted until I could get a Muncie 4 speed.

I think the Super T-10 came out in 84 or 85 with the overdrive on the back of it. It was called a Doug Nash 4+3. Not the best overdrive setup.
was that overdrive used only in the C4 vette or other platforms too? or was that something different in the C4?
 

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And that was just the 305 Z-28s of the 80s. Chevy never offered a T5 behind a 350 when Z28s went to 350s again. And that saved a lot of customers some grief.
 

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And that was just the 305 Z-28s of the 80s. Chevy never offered a T5 behind a 350 when Z28s went to 350s again. And that saved a lot of customers some grief.
I know all about that my brother in law has an 87 IROC purchased new with a TPI 350 first year and mandatory 700R4. In addition to the auto these cars also got a beefed up rear axle from Borg Warner without c clips. He buys AC oil filters and paints them black.
 

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Are we concluding that a 55 chevy CAR with a 265 V-8 and 3 speed manual...was not fully synchro?


I had that combo in 1961 and could swear it was synchronized when upshifting 1-2-3 & downshifting 3-2-1.


I was only 13 y.o. so have no clue whether it was Saginaw, Muncie or B.W. but I did take it apart and re-assemble it the following year just to see how it worked.
 

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Having just recently installed a 68 Saginaw in my 55 this topic is of great interest.
The TRUCK 3 speed Muncie of the late 60s is IDENTICAL to the 3 speed from our Trifives, internally and externally, with the exception of the gear select lever position and tailshaft casting.

I also found on the net this blurb:

"According to the Chevrolet Pickup Red Book, for 1955 truck transmissions, serial numbers should begin with the following:

M = 3 speed Muncie
S = 3 speed Saginaw
W = 3 speed HD Warner Gear
T = 4 spe3d Toledo
C = Powerglide Cleveland

"

I would be curious what the serial number on your early trans is.
 

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dream66, your memory from 59 years ago is incorrect. The first Chevy 3 speed to have a synchronized first gear was indeed the 66 Saginaw.
 

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dream66, your memory from 59 years ago is incorrect. The first Chevy 3 speed to have a synchronized first gear was indeed the 66 Saginaw.

Well, shoot. So mah memrey sux. OK but ahm still 20/20 unkerrected vishun whin mah I's 'er opun.
 

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4 bolt side cover Gm trans is a Muncie.

The little peanut 4 bolt side cover trans is a Muncie 318 when equipped with a overdrive its a Muncie 319. The factory truck service manual. The book Chevrolet issued to the dealers list that 4 bolt non snycro trans as a 318 Muncie. Type in a internet search for 318 Muncie and see what you get. The OP can think whatever he wants however in this instance he is 100% incorrect.
 

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Having just recently installed a 68 Saginaw in my 55 this topic is of great interest.
The TRUCK 3 speed Muncie of the late 60s is IDENTICAL to the 3 speed from our Trifives, internally and externally, with the exception of the gear select lever position and tailshaft casting.

I also found on the net this blurb:

"According to the Chevrolet Pickup Red Book, for 1955 truck transmissions, serial numbers should begin with the following:

M = 3 speed Muncie
S = 3 speed Saginaw
W = 3 speed HD Warner Gear
T = 4 spe3d Toledo
C = Powerglide Cleveland

"

I would be curious what the serial number on your early trans is.

However, everything I've found reflects that Chevy Transmissions were made in Saginaw since the 1920s. Postcard from eBay, 1951.
Just because something was manufactured at Saginaw that doesn't make it a Saginaw.
 

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Having just recently installed a 68 Saginaw in my 55 this topic is of great interest.
The TRUCK 3 speed Muncie of the late 60s is IDENTICAL to the 3 speed from our Trifives, internally and externally, with the exception of the gear select lever position and tailshaft casting.

I also found on the net this blurb:

"According to the Chevrolet Pickup Red Book, for 1955 truck transmissions, serial numbers should begin with the following:

M = 3 speed Muncie
S = 3 speed Saginaw
W = 3 speed HD Warner Gear
T = 4 spe3d Toledo
C = Powerglide Cleveland

"

I would be cuous what the serial number on your early trans is.

However, everything I've found reflects that Chevy Transmissions were made in Saginaw since the 1920s. Postcard from eBay, 1951.
Not true on late 60s Muncie 3 speed they were a fully synco heavy duty 3 speed much stronger than the Saginaw that Rick correctly stated came out in 66. The Muncie weighs half again more than a Saginaw.
 
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