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Discussion Starter #1
Car runs terrific and I get great gas milage. I been very happy with the motor.

I took the LQ4 from a Hummer H2 and it had a power steering cooler. The return line that went to cooler I blocked off. Pressure goes to box and return goes to bottom of pump. Problem is my pump is VERY whiny. There are no air bubbles in the res, no leaks, PLENTY of fluid, and its P/S fluid too. Is there an airlock bubble in the pump? I have about 1200 miles on it, it steers fine, tried bleeding it. Still whines. The pump noise can be louder than the exhaust.

any ideas?

thanks!

CJ
 

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roger1 just reported a similar problem with a Ram Jet 350. Heat too.

I've seen a post somewhere that claimed a cooler was necessary on an LT1 power steering pump. I don't buy into that 100%. And of course you don't have an LT1, but you do have a late model swap.

Do you have a remote reservoir? Is it an OE reservoir or custom? If it's custom, do you have baffling similar to an OE reservoir? (I'm pretty sure roger had a pump with an integral tank, and these questions wouldn't apply to that.)

Also there are additives recommended for hydroboost systems. You didn't mention hydroboost but that may be something that would help.

I know I may not have addressed your problem directly, just throwing related stuff out there for discussion.
 

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Since you removed the cooler which also effectively took out overall fluid volume, I wonder if you don't have turbulence taking place inside the fluid reservoir, effectively limiting/starving the amount of fluid going to the pump?

Charlie
 

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Car runs terrific and I get great gas milage. I been very happy with the motor.

I took the LQ4 from a Hummer H2 and it had a power steering cooler. The return line that went to cooler I blocked off. Pressure goes to box and return goes to bottom of pump. Problem is my pump is VERY whiny. There are no air bubbles in the res, no leaks, PLENTY of fluid, and its P/S fluid too. Is there an airlock bubble in the pump? I have about 1200 miles on it, it steers fine, tried bleeding it. Still whines. The pump noise can be louder than the exhaust.

any ideas?

thanks!

CJ
If the pump had two returns then the truck had hydroboost brakes and that's what the returns was for originally. All the trucks had a powersteering cooler in line of the return from the steering box.


Rick hit the nail on the head you need a cooler!!! The stock power steering pumps are known to do that with out a PS cooler. The old Camaro LS1 pumps were the worse as they didn't have a PS cooler on the early ones and GM added it later.

You won't need a very big one just run it in the return line.
 

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That's strange.....we have several, including my Hummer H2 set up, without coolers. Run just fine without noise, excessive heat. Mine also powers the hydraboost. I did add the Borgeson psi relief shim kit. I used 4 of the 5 shims.
Hydraboost works really well with the 11" discs.....U have as much as 2100PSI at the caliper, if needed.
 

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That's strange.....we have several, including my Hummer H2 set up, without coolers. Run just fine without noise, excessive heat. Mine also powers the hydraboost. I did add the Borgeson psi relief shim kit. I used 4 of the 5 shims.
Hydraboost works really well with the 11" discs.....U have as much as 2100PSI at the caliper, if needed.
Its not a given its just some pumps do it and some don't. Its not as bad really in OEM truck applications as the cooler does help. Now I have heard some pumps do it even with the cooler.

I would try a cooler then if it still bad do a new pump.

Here's one for $30. Cheap ins!!!
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DER-13210/
 

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Discussion Starter #7
PS cooler

I took a heat temp gun to the reservoir, and it 160 degrees on a hot day. no bubbles either. I have no reservoir other than the can surrounding the pump.
I guess I'll try the cooler before throwing the pump in the trash. I talked to the full size truck guys and they said that unless you are towing, the cooler ain't necessary.

thanks for helping.
 

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I think BO said that I recommended a cooler. I didn't, in fact I stated that you shouldn't need one. I was just relaying information I'd seen discussed. Same with the additives.

Thing is both the cooler and additive are relatively cheap fixes, so if they turn out to work, good reason or not, what the heck? On the other hand I'm not a fan of throwing parts at a problem, I want to know what's wrong and why something works. Because next time won't be exactly the same, but if you understand what you're dealing with, you're way ahead of the game.
 

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Guys, I tried to download the file in Charlie's link by first installing the s/w they want you to use and got blocked by McAfee when downloading that s/w.

I've seen the same article before and tried to print it, you can't with Windows 7 or XP. The figures in it were of interest. That and these things don't get hosted on the internet forever.

Has anyone else downloaded the hydroboost article succuessfully? Or do you run into the same problems I did?
 

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Boy, they sure do lock that thing down... If you have Win 7, you can do full page snips, then drop those into a Word doc if you want to make a print out. Not the most efficient, but it works...

Charlie
 

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I talked to the full size truck guys and they said that unless you are towing, the cooler ain't necessary.

thanks for helping.
That's really not true towing has nothing to do with steering. Now larger than stock tirers will effect it. The LS1 camaro guys use to have problems with PS pumps as GM didn't have a cooler stock on those. It may be getting hot when turning in town alot or when under the hood heat raises.

For $30 a cooler is a pretty good deal and it will help with PS fluid life as well. Now that is no fix for a bad pump but worth a shot IMO.
 

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I feel like I am obligated to step in here as I have a LOT of experience in the fields of P/S, Trans, engine, and overall automotive cooling system design in general.

I used to work for a company that makes P/S coolers for GM, Ford, Chrysler and pretty much anyone else that would buy them. (Long Manufacturing, which is now a division of Dana - these coolers are made in a small plant in Danville, IN - about 30 minutes west of Indy)

I started as a design engineer for them, and spent many summer weeks testing these vehicles throughout the American southwest. (Death Valley, Baker CA, Las Vegas, etc....yeah...life was "rough" those days ;) )
I eventually ended up as their North American sales manager; and therefore it was my responsitility to try to convince these companies that they "needed" to have these coolers on their vehicles.

From my experience I can confidently state that....(2) things drive power steering fluid temperatures up to the point where a cooler is needed, and those (2) things pretty much have to happen at the same time:

They are:

1) High engine rpm (therefore high P/S pump rpm)
2) Constant / high steering input. (ie: lots of steering back and forth)

We'd test trucks towing 18,000 lb going up highway grades for 15 minutes straight near engine redline in first gear (lucky to get 40 mph) and the p/s fluid would NOT heat up to the point that a cooler was needed.

But....if we dropped the trailer and then drove like a madman (high rpm) up a winding mountain road (lots of steering back and forth) the p/s temp would spike very quickly.

Trust me....unless you are taking your car on the track; no one needs a p/s cooler to keep the oil temps down for "normal" driving.
Sorry; but the oil temps just do NOT get up very high with anything that even remotely resembles normal everyday driving.

Now...I will say that adding a cooler (and therefore a small increase in system fluid volume) could theoretically have some other affect on the system; however I certainly wouldn't recommend adding one in order to try to solve any pump issue you are seeing.


I'll also say...FWIW, that the P/S pump in my 2003 Dodge pickup was really whiny recently, and for $50 (Autozone) I swapped in a new pump and it is perfectly quiet now. If you have a whiny pump, I'd just swap it out as you probably have a bad one and/or it's near the end of its life...and they aren't typically that expensive.
 

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Mr Handy hit it on the head..........Change the pump..
 

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Mr Handy what would you say oil temps would be on a 100* day normal driving. No cooler? And same OAT with a decent fin cooler?



As I have said I agree its not to fix pump problems. To me its more to extend oil life and pump life as the oil would be cooler and thicker. To me that's why OEM's run them as it helps prevent warranty claims on whiny pumps.

BTW anyone else hate the Ford PS whine, everyone I have ever heard sounds the same BAD!! lol
 

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Mr Handy what would you say oil temps would be on a 100* day normal driving. No cooler? And same OAT with a decent fin cooler?



As I have said I agree its not to fix pump problems. To me its more to extend oil life and pump life as the oil would be cooler and thicker. To me that's why OEM's run them as it helps prevent warranty claims on whiny pumps.

BTW anyone else hate the Ford PS whine, everyone I have ever heard sounds the same BAD!! lol
It's hard to answer a question like that, but I'll say that in general - as long as the P/S temp stays under 230F during 'normal' driving, the OEM manufacturers do not add a cooler.
If one does add a cooler, I would expect it to drop the temp something in the 10-20F range - as long as it has decent airflow across it. (Depends on the cooler of course, but pretty much anything will work for a P/S cooler)

For that hot weather testing I used to do (which was not considered "normal driving") the OEM manufactures would permit short term "excursions" up to 275F or even 290-300F with some manufacturers.
In general though, we'd very rarely see even short term excursions beyond 250F even without a cooler.

You are absolutely right; they add the cooler to prolong fluid life, and therefore indirectly... pump durability.
P/S fluid (which is usually very similar, or the same as trans fluid) has a life span which depends on its "time at temp"; and that is a "exponential" life curve.
ie: at 300F it may degrade to a point that it is garbage in less than 1 hour; however at 275F maybe it will last 10 hours, while at 250 it is good for 100 hours, and 230 it has virtually an indefinite lifespan. (I made up those numbers, but you get the idea)

So if you plan on putting another 200,000 miles on your Tri-5 without changing the P/S fluid.....you might want a cooler!

But other than that.....it's not required.
 

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So if you plan on putting another 200,000 miles on your Tri-5 without changing the P/S fluid.....you might want a cooler!

But other than that.....it's not required.
Haha so true, I would put 200k on a trifive if I could!
 
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