6
Here's some swap info on the Gen III/IV V8
This info covers the GM Gen III V8's: Vortec 4.8/5.3/6.0/6.2 and LS1/2/3/6/7/9. And is by no means complete It's just a guide and info for the cost benefit analysis for anybody thinking about the swap.
RPO codes for Gen III/IV LS1,2,3, LQ4/9 etc...
The list is for a Gen III truck engines. But the LS car engines are the same basic engines.
GEN III GM ENGINE SWAP INFO
1) EXHAUST You will need stock F-body LS1 Camaro exhaust manifolds 1998-2002. The stock trucks may fit the frame they kick out at the exhaust flange! I got mine for free a local shop had thrown them in a dumpster because they said they did not need them. Check E-bay, or locally. Don't pay more than 100 bucks more like 50 bucks for both! Oh, size at least dual 2.5'' back with a cross-over fwd of the transmission with (insert your mufflers here). Single exhaust will work I would do 2.5'' to muffler than a single 3'' or 3.5'' out. As for headers Longtubes are the way to go. Several companies sell these for tri-fives.
Also the truck manifold will fit if you angle mill the exhaust flange on the drivers side flange.
Another option now is the 2010 up camaro LS3/L99 exhaust manifolds.
2)VSS The computer needs a Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) signal for shifting the 4L60E/4l80 and to get the motor to idle right in certain conditions. If running a manual trans you need some type of VSS for the ECM as well for better economy and idle. The stock location for the VSS is in the transmission tailshaft. It uses the VSS for the computer and speedo. Jagsthatrun sells external inline VSSVSS information
The engine can be tuned to run without a VSS but I wouldn't recommend it as it reduces fuel mileage.
You can also use a Cable-X box if you have the 4l60/80 trans with VSS and want to maintain the stock mech. speedo. Not cheap but works!
http://www.abbott-tach.com/cablex.htm
3) Fuel The engine needs 60psi give or take to run. I made a custom tank out of Aluminum for use on my stock IH Scout II location and used the stock gm intank pump and sender truck pump for the same year as the motor. I had to shorten the sender float so it would fit the tank and read correctly. I wanted a little more than the stock 19 gals but the 33 gal is to big so the tank holds 25 gals.
Options are a external pump mounted low on the frame rail with a return from the engine to the tank. The 2005 up truck and some 2004 truck motors use fuel rails use a return less fuel system like the LS1 do, so you need a regulator like the Vette fuel/regulator or stock fuel sender. In the stock returnless fuel systems for the trucks the regulator is in the tank with the pump and sender. On the earlier truck manifolds just run a filter and a return line. Summit sells slip on fitting adapters to connect the rail to AN fittings.
Also you can get a replacement tank ready for EFI for the tri-fives.
4) Emissions I don't run any kind of emissions on my engine. So if your state says you do than you most run cats and EGR valve. But if not than you can cap the EGR valve at the intake and exhaust and remove the valve on pre 03 engines the later engines don't have EGR on certain models. And I don't run cats or a purge canister for the gas tank. You most have some one remove the emissions codes in the computer or the check engine light will be on. O2 sensors the stock truck has four two in front of the cats (you need these) and Two behind the cats (can be removed and code turned off). The computer just uses those two behind the cat to see if the cats are working or not.
I would recommend running at least the cats. The next swap I do I plan on trying to make it emission compliant. This will only help to support our hobby and show that we aren't big polluters.
5) Cooling I bought a universal Chevy style radiator from summit that fit myscout opening. I modified the stock GM truck hoses to fit the rad. There is a small hose than goes into the stock rad and a heater for the throttle body I removed for a cooler air intake. It Uses this to prevent throttle ice in cold air but round here it doesn't get that cold. Also on the LS motors you can cap the rear lines and just use the front steam ports, the truck motors come like this from the factory. Fan -I use an Electric fan because I mounted the engine low and the stock gm fan is to low plus the e-fan doesn't steal horse power! I also run a trans cooler and oil cooler under the AC evap.
Several companies sell drop in replacements for the tri-five and LS motors. You could reuse your stock rad. and just plum the steam line into the heater hose or the top of the water pump.
6) Computer and wiring I used the stock computer and had it modified with HPtuners to work for what I needed. It's reprogrammed for performance. You will have to go in to the computer and defeat the anti theft software (VATS) so the engine will run in the scout. VATS uses the stock gm ignition switch to tell if it's in the right truck or not! For wiring I interfaced the stock gm harness to my own home made harness for the dash with auto meter gauges. I also put a check engine light (yellow LED) in the dash and put an OBD II plug under the dash so I can plug up My laptop. Options are to interface the gm harness with painless universal. I would recommend pulling all stock scout wires if the are the original old ones not worth a fire! I will try to compile a list of codes to turn off and make a harness interface guide as to what pins do what from the computer I have see them on line but A good shop manual for the gm stuff as wire prints in them. Oh you must also wire the brake light switch up so the torque converter will lock and unlock. I also used the stock Gm Neutral safety backup light switch on the trans at the shift lever. Also if you get the under hood GM fuse block as well as the TAC box and gas petal, this will make swaps easier for DBW TB.
DBW components
The TAC module has two connections, one for the pedal harness..other hooks into main engine harness there are two styles the 9-pin connector the later 2006-up ones are 6-pin.
TAC modules have to match up to the year range of the PCM AND the throttle body.
03-05 TAC module works with 03-05 truck TB and 03-05 PCM (BLUE/GREEN connectors)
01-02 TAC module works with 01-02 truck TB, 97-04 Vette TB, and 01-02 PCM (BLUE/RED connectors).
03-05 TAC modules have an aluminum mounting base, 01-02 TAC modules are all black plastic including the mounting base.
Basically what can be removed or not needed
-EGR: mounts in front of pass. head with a tube running from the exhaust manifold to the valve then into the intake behind the TB. This for 03 and earlier motors mostly.
-canister purge valve/lines: These run from the charcoal canister to a valve above the drivers valve cover then into the intake on top.
-Cats: catalytic converters you don't need them.
-Rear O2's: These are mounted behind the cats (2 each) and tell the PCM if the cats are working or not. you don't need these.
-Oil level sensor: It's on the pass. of oil pan. You can jumper the wires in the harness at that plug. I usually leave it hooked up.
-TB heater: Coolant tubes in the TB that move coolant through the TB to heat it. Just remove the lines from the TB and reconnect underneath it.
The harness can be reworked to remove these things and make it for a 3 or 4 wire hook up to the vehicle. Then have the PCM tuned to remove what you don't need.
Sensor locations (Gen III truck motor)
-MAP is on top of the intake, towards the rear.
-Knock sensors are under the intake but the connector is just to the driver side of the MAP sensor on the intake. (Gen IV motors are on the each side of the block)
-Coolant temp is in the front of the driver side cylinder head.
-Oil pressure is right next to the Cam sensor at the back block behind the intake.
-Low oil level mounted on the pass or oil pan
-EVAP purge solenoid The cylinder sticking out of the intake right in back of the throttle body is the EVAP purge solenoid.
-TPS and IAC are on the cable throttle body. IAC on top. DBW TB has no IAC.
-MAF and IAT are combined in the MAF located on the intake tube.
-Cam sensor Back of the block on Gen III motors and is mounted on the front of the timing cover on Gen IV motors.
-Crank Trigger Located on pass. of block inboard of the starter. Gen III motors are 24x wheel and Gen IV are 58x wheel (save for the early LS2's 05-06 these were Gen IV motors with E40 ECM and 24x wheel's). Black color is 24x reluctor and grey one is 58X reluctor
Several companies supply harness or mod. the stock ones. Speartech, Jims perfromance, and Superior harness. Among a few.
7) Engine mounts BRP sell motor mounts, as well a Clasic chevy international. Among others sell mounts. Just buy the SBC side mount kit and make your own SBC mount to LS adapter plate to save your self some money.
8) Driveshafts Most time will need to be modified as the 4l60 is longer than the stock units.
9) Air conditioner I used the stock gm 99 air compressor and adapted it to work with the IH scout stuff the compressor fits with just enough room to bolt the hoses on. I had to bend the stock hose to the run them right than adapt them to the IH stuff with adapters. it could still be use as trail air if you don't need the AC. Note the later Gen IV E38/E40/E67 ECM's won't control the a/c system. SO it to needs to be standalone if using 2007-up motor.
The trifives need to have the frame notched to clear the low mount A/C compressor. Or you can high mount it and use the kwik perf. high mount A/C mount bracket.
10)Intakes The truck intake flow the same as the LS1 car and offers better low end over the car one. The LS6 flows better than the trucks but not enough to be worth swapping it out. The aftermarket FAST etc. flow really well but are expense! You can upgrade to a TBSS LS2 90mm TB truck intake or an LS2 90mm as well.
The new L92 and L76/LS3 intakes will only fit the L92/LS3 square intake ports and won't fit the Gen III heads.
Also the DBW intakes are alittle different than the cable ones as well with the PCV locations.
11)Heads There are lots of choices now. From ported to stock. Stockers: The 317 stock 6.0L heads are based on the LS6 243 and flow pretty good. The 799 heads are basically 243. The L92 head will only fit a 4'' bore motor and will only work with L92/LS3 intake because of the different intake ports. YOu can add 243 to a 5.3l but it will increase CR as well. Then newer 5.3l actually come with 243 heads now.
12)Oil Pans There are several stock LS pans to choice from. The main one for a trifive is the LH8/GMPP swap pan it fit's and clears the steering although hangs low so I wouldn't use it on a lowered car. Also now holley and MAST have a swap pan as well.
13)Transmissions The Gen III/IV engine share the same SBC trans patterns as the early V8. So any SBC TH350/400/700r4 or Gen I 4l60 and 4l80 trans will bolt right up. You just need to correct flex plate and spacers for the earlier SBC trans. A spacer supports the torque converter nose. AND YES THAT'S THE WAY IT GOES!!! Some have even not even used the spacer. But, like i said it's to support the converter center.
http://jeepinpete.com/engine_trans_adapt_files/engine_trans_adapt1.htm
The Gen III converters for the 4l60 have a large center section than the Gen I and hence the dish. The spacers on the crank themselves are for the 4l80's with the 6.0ls behind them with flat flex plates.
4l80 converter Note the middle used with flat flexplate and spacer on the crank
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4l60 Gen I/ 4.3L smaller center hub
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4l60/65/70 Note the larger center hub for the dished flex plate!
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GM PART # 12563532
CATEGORY: Engine Flywheel
BOLTS
GM PART # 12563533
The later model 2007 trucks using the E38/E67 ECM's use a separate TCM for all transmissions. So you will need the TCM for the 4l65/70 and the 4l80 as well. GM did this because they need the new ECM to control things like VVT and AFM and the transmission controls really limit the computing power so they separated them.
The new 6l80/90 will work, the TCM is internal to these, but the limiting factor with these is they require a 58x relutor wheel and new E38/E67 ECM controller. So these are only options for the Gen IV's now. Till some one makes a standalone for the TCM inside the trans.
LINKS
LS1Tech
GEN III INFO
The Gm engine Gen IV Vortec L92 6.2L /L76 6.0L and LS2/3/7. The basic difference's of the new motors are the placement of the knock sensors on the side of the block, a 4x cam sensor mounted in the front of the cam now, some have VVT, AFM, and a 58x reluctor wheel (crank trigger). These engines are the same as the Gen III save for these changes and most parts inter change from both family's.
That's just half of the info I have found, and will try to answer your questions! Anything to help!
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This info covers the GM Gen III V8's: Vortec 4.8/5.3/6.0/6.2 and LS1/2/3/6/7/9. And is by no means complete It's just a guide and info for the cost benefit analysis for anybody thinking about the swap.
RPO codes for Gen III/IV LS1,2,3, LQ4/9 etc...
The list is for a Gen III truck engines. But the LS car engines are the same basic engines.
GEN III GM ENGINE SWAP INFO
1) EXHAUST You will need stock F-body LS1 Camaro exhaust manifolds 1998-2002. The stock trucks may fit the frame they kick out at the exhaust flange! I got mine for free a local shop had thrown them in a dumpster because they said they did not need them. Check E-bay, or locally. Don't pay more than 100 bucks more like 50 bucks for both! Oh, size at least dual 2.5'' back with a cross-over fwd of the transmission with (insert your mufflers here). Single exhaust will work I would do 2.5'' to muffler than a single 3'' or 3.5'' out. As for headers Longtubes are the way to go. Several companies sell these for tri-fives.
Also the truck manifold will fit if you angle mill the exhaust flange on the drivers side flange.
Another option now is the 2010 up camaro LS3/L99 exhaust manifolds.
2)VSS The computer needs a Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) signal for shifting the 4L60E/4l80 and to get the motor to idle right in certain conditions. If running a manual trans you need some type of VSS for the ECM as well for better economy and idle. The stock location for the VSS is in the transmission tailshaft. It uses the VSS for the computer and speedo. Jagsthatrun sells external inline VSSVSS information
The engine can be tuned to run without a VSS but I wouldn't recommend it as it reduces fuel mileage.
You can also use a Cable-X box if you have the 4l60/80 trans with VSS and want to maintain the stock mech. speedo. Not cheap but works!
http://www.abbott-tach.com/cablex.htm
3) Fuel The engine needs 60psi give or take to run. I made a custom tank out of Aluminum for use on my stock IH Scout II location and used the stock gm intank pump and sender truck pump for the same year as the motor. I had to shorten the sender float so it would fit the tank and read correctly. I wanted a little more than the stock 19 gals but the 33 gal is to big so the tank holds 25 gals.
Options are a external pump mounted low on the frame rail with a return from the engine to the tank. The 2005 up truck and some 2004 truck motors use fuel rails use a return less fuel system like the LS1 do, so you need a regulator like the Vette fuel/regulator or stock fuel sender. In the stock returnless fuel systems for the trucks the regulator is in the tank with the pump and sender. On the earlier truck manifolds just run a filter and a return line. Summit sells slip on fitting adapters to connect the rail to AN fittings.
Also you can get a replacement tank ready for EFI for the tri-fives.
4) Emissions I don't run any kind of emissions on my engine. So if your state says you do than you most run cats and EGR valve. But if not than you can cap the EGR valve at the intake and exhaust and remove the valve on pre 03 engines the later engines don't have EGR on certain models. And I don't run cats or a purge canister for the gas tank. You most have some one remove the emissions codes in the computer or the check engine light will be on. O2 sensors the stock truck has four two in front of the cats (you need these) and Two behind the cats (can be removed and code turned off). The computer just uses those two behind the cat to see if the cats are working or not.
I would recommend running at least the cats. The next swap I do I plan on trying to make it emission compliant. This will only help to support our hobby and show that we aren't big polluters.
5) Cooling I bought a universal Chevy style radiator from summit that fit myscout opening. I modified the stock GM truck hoses to fit the rad. There is a small hose than goes into the stock rad and a heater for the throttle body I removed for a cooler air intake. It Uses this to prevent throttle ice in cold air but round here it doesn't get that cold. Also on the LS motors you can cap the rear lines and just use the front steam ports, the truck motors come like this from the factory. Fan -I use an Electric fan because I mounted the engine low and the stock gm fan is to low plus the e-fan doesn't steal horse power! I also run a trans cooler and oil cooler under the AC evap.
Several companies sell drop in replacements for the tri-five and LS motors. You could reuse your stock rad. and just plum the steam line into the heater hose or the top of the water pump.
6) Computer and wiring I used the stock computer and had it modified with HPtuners to work for what I needed. It's reprogrammed for performance. You will have to go in to the computer and defeat the anti theft software (VATS) so the engine will run in the scout. VATS uses the stock gm ignition switch to tell if it's in the right truck or not! For wiring I interfaced the stock gm harness to my own home made harness for the dash with auto meter gauges. I also put a check engine light (yellow LED) in the dash and put an OBD II plug under the dash so I can plug up My laptop. Options are to interface the gm harness with painless universal. I would recommend pulling all stock scout wires if the are the original old ones not worth a fire! I will try to compile a list of codes to turn off and make a harness interface guide as to what pins do what from the computer I have see them on line but A good shop manual for the gm stuff as wire prints in them. Oh you must also wire the brake light switch up so the torque converter will lock and unlock. I also used the stock Gm Neutral safety backup light switch on the trans at the shift lever. Also if you get the under hood GM fuse block as well as the TAC box and gas petal, this will make swaps easier for DBW TB.
DBW components
The TAC module has two connections, one for the pedal harness..other hooks into main engine harness there are two styles the 9-pin connector the later 2006-up ones are 6-pin.
TAC modules have to match up to the year range of the PCM AND the throttle body.
03-05 TAC module works with 03-05 truck TB and 03-05 PCM (BLUE/GREEN connectors)
01-02 TAC module works with 01-02 truck TB, 97-04 Vette TB, and 01-02 PCM (BLUE/RED connectors).
03-05 TAC modules have an aluminum mounting base, 01-02 TAC modules are all black plastic including the mounting base.
Basically what can be removed or not needed
-EGR: mounts in front of pass. head with a tube running from the exhaust manifold to the valve then into the intake behind the TB. This for 03 and earlier motors mostly.
-canister purge valve/lines: These run from the charcoal canister to a valve above the drivers valve cover then into the intake on top.
-Cats: catalytic converters you don't need them.
-Rear O2's: These are mounted behind the cats (2 each) and tell the PCM if the cats are working or not. you don't need these.
-Oil level sensor: It's on the pass. of oil pan. You can jumper the wires in the harness at that plug. I usually leave it hooked up.
-TB heater: Coolant tubes in the TB that move coolant through the TB to heat it. Just remove the lines from the TB and reconnect underneath it.
The harness can be reworked to remove these things and make it for a 3 or 4 wire hook up to the vehicle. Then have the PCM tuned to remove what you don't need.
Sensor locations (Gen III truck motor)
-MAP is on top of the intake, towards the rear.
-Knock sensors are under the intake but the connector is just to the driver side of the MAP sensor on the intake. (Gen IV motors are on the each side of the block)
-Coolant temp is in the front of the driver side cylinder head.
-Oil pressure is right next to the Cam sensor at the back block behind the intake.
-Low oil level mounted on the pass or oil pan
-EVAP purge solenoid The cylinder sticking out of the intake right in back of the throttle body is the EVAP purge solenoid.
-TPS and IAC are on the cable throttle body. IAC on top. DBW TB has no IAC.
-MAF and IAT are combined in the MAF located on the intake tube.
-Cam sensor Back of the block on Gen III motors and is mounted on the front of the timing cover on Gen IV motors.
-Crank Trigger Located on pass. of block inboard of the starter. Gen III motors are 24x wheel and Gen IV are 58x wheel (save for the early LS2's 05-06 these were Gen IV motors with E40 ECM and 24x wheel's). Black color is 24x reluctor and grey one is 58X reluctor
Several companies supply harness or mod. the stock ones. Speartech, Jims perfromance, and Superior harness. Among a few.
7) Engine mounts BRP sell motor mounts, as well a Clasic chevy international. Among others sell mounts. Just buy the SBC side mount kit and make your own SBC mount to LS adapter plate to save your self some money.
8) Driveshafts Most time will need to be modified as the 4l60 is longer than the stock units.
9) Air conditioner I used the stock gm 99 air compressor and adapted it to work with the IH scout stuff the compressor fits with just enough room to bolt the hoses on. I had to bend the stock hose to the run them right than adapt them to the IH stuff with adapters. it could still be use as trail air if you don't need the AC. Note the later Gen IV E38/E40/E67 ECM's won't control the a/c system. SO it to needs to be standalone if using 2007-up motor.
The trifives need to have the frame notched to clear the low mount A/C compressor. Or you can high mount it and use the kwik perf. high mount A/C mount bracket.
10)Intakes The truck intake flow the same as the LS1 car and offers better low end over the car one. The LS6 flows better than the trucks but not enough to be worth swapping it out. The aftermarket FAST etc. flow really well but are expense! You can upgrade to a TBSS LS2 90mm TB truck intake or an LS2 90mm as well.
The new L92 and L76/LS3 intakes will only fit the L92/LS3 square intake ports and won't fit the Gen III heads.
Also the DBW intakes are alittle different than the cable ones as well with the PCV locations.
11)Heads There are lots of choices now. From ported to stock. Stockers: The 317 stock 6.0L heads are based on the LS6 243 and flow pretty good. The 799 heads are basically 243. The L92 head will only fit a 4'' bore motor and will only work with L92/LS3 intake because of the different intake ports. YOu can add 243 to a 5.3l but it will increase CR as well. Then newer 5.3l actually come with 243 heads now.
12)Oil Pans There are several stock LS pans to choice from. The main one for a trifive is the LH8/GMPP swap pan it fit's and clears the steering although hangs low so I wouldn't use it on a lowered car. Also now holley and MAST have a swap pan as well.
13)Transmissions The Gen III/IV engine share the same SBC trans patterns as the early V8. So any SBC TH350/400/700r4 or Gen I 4l60 and 4l80 trans will bolt right up. You just need to correct flex plate and spacers for the earlier SBC trans. A spacer supports the torque converter nose. AND YES THAT'S THE WAY IT GOES!!! Some have even not even used the spacer. But, like i said it's to support the converter center.
http://jeepinpete.com/engine_trans_adapt_files/engine_trans_adapt1.htm
The Gen III converters for the 4l60 have a large center section than the Gen I and hence the dish. The spacers on the crank themselves are for the 4l80's with the 6.0ls behind them with flat flex plates.
4l80 converter Note the middle used with flat flexplate and spacer on the crank
4l60 Gen I/ 4.3L smaller center hub
4l60/65/70 Note the larger center hub for the dished flex plate!
GM PART # 12563532
CATEGORY: Engine Flywheel
BOLTS
GM PART # 12563533
The later model 2007 trucks using the E38/E67 ECM's use a separate TCM for all transmissions. So you will need the TCM for the 4l65/70 and the 4l80 as well. GM did this because they need the new ECM to control things like VVT and AFM and the transmission controls really limit the computing power so they separated them.
The new 6l80/90 will work, the TCM is internal to these, but the limiting factor with these is they require a 58x relutor wheel and new E38/E67 ECM controller. So these are only options for the Gen IV's now. Till some one makes a standalone for the TCM inside the trans.
LINKS
LS1Tech
GEN III INFO
The Gm engine Gen IV Vortec L92 6.2L /L76 6.0L and LS2/3/7. The basic difference's of the new motors are the placement of the knock sensors on the side of the block, a 4x cam sensor mounted in the front of the cam now, some have VVT, AFM, and a 58x reluctor wheel (crank trigger). These engines are the same as the Gen III save for these changes and most parts inter change from both family's.
That's just half of the info I have found, and will try to answer your questions! Anything to help!
