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Thanks again Guys. This info is proving to be valued input to a system I personally did not know a lot about and gives clear reasoning as to why i asked the orig Question..
I need to get it correct..
I see now why the pitman arm must be used, The correct idler and tie rod..
Please confirm my interpretation on the info supplied..
If i understand correctly, The pitman arm is a different length, thus altering the ratio.
The idler to bring the drag link into the correct plane so as to avoid a bind on the passenger side and keep alignment in tune
The inner tie rod to clear the power assist steer drag-link at valve
The shorter sleeve to accommodate the extra length of the tie rod..
With the above in virtual situ i can now see why i can not use my std steer parts...
I can visualize the ratio indifference would put undue load on the steer components and cause premature wear.

As far as std position on the headers.... I can only assume they will hit although not as much.. Measurement wise anyway. My mods to the engine mounts were done before when chassis was out and with a different set of headers. I originally had block hugger headers fitted. After body was placed back on, i proceed through the build with minimal problems. It was not until i was running the engine in i developed an overheat issue. In chasing the overheat issues i changed to the Patriots. These gave me less issues in fitment of the entire exhaust than the huggers gave me in just the headers. So i have eliminated 80-90% of exhaust problems i had with the huggers and reduced to just this one issue. So a step in the right direction in my eyes.
A notch in the #5 pipe i think is on the cards and a little clearance mod on the pitman arm may give me what i need to do going forward.
So i will have to wait now until i have parts before i move forward with the conversion..I am hoping a fellow member down under here comes through and can confirm he has some parts he hasn't seen for a some time and he still has them for me to procure from him. If not another member has responded to my request on parts, has a full setup ready to go or another less complete and needing repairs, avail for me to procure. My only issue on that is the freight costs may be a killer.. Will have to wait until it pans out...Will let you know how it goes..
Your input has proved most Valuable Thanks.
It pretty much sounds like you have it all in regards to the steering parts as well as what direction you are going to take to resolve your interference. Save this discussion and keep us posted with your progress. Everyone will gain from your experience. Good luck!
 

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I finally got time to install the new Power Steering idler arm I got from Mutton Hollow on my chevy today.

I bought a power assist system at a swap meet last year but (unknown to me) the unit had a standard idler arm.

The correct length idler improved the steering quite a bit.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
I finally got time to install the new Power Steering idler arm I got from Mutton Hollow on my chevy today.

I bought a power assist system at a swap meet last year but (unknown to me) the unit had a standard idler arm.

The correct length idler improved the steering quite a bit.
Sweet as Gary, you have just confirmed 1 other item in my conversion that i must get correct..
The plot thickens, as i am believe or not, having a large amount of difficulty fining the parts i need from down under.. You would have thought with so many cars downunder that have had conversions, that they would be everywhere.. this is proving to be not the case..my quest continues..Only just received a PM from a fellow member in FL who may be able to assit me.. Will PM him shortly to ask a few questions on freight and parts. Will see how this comes out.. Hopes and dreams may win out with this yet..
Cheers for now David
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Hey guys, just thought i would bring this one back to the top.
I now have (to my utter delight) 2 almost complete power steer assist systems.
Neither has a pump. No biggy as i intend to use a different pump anyway.
1 has the pump to cylinder hoses missing, again no biggy as I will need to modify them anyway to marry the new pump position. I have 1 only power assist pitman arm and manual box attached thrown into the deal so a win there..
My question now pertains to the idler arms on them.
Both are the correct length for power assist however the bushes are different..
1 has the std bushes I used in the manual steer idler ( I believe this to be the correct one)
The other appears to have bushes without the outer steel sleeve and a lot larger in size compared to the other..the same size as the Chrome one below. Keep in mind this is not the one i have as BOTH of mine are the same length so either can be used for the conversion. Also the relay link also has the same to suit. What bushes do i need for the non sleeved bushes replacement?
Re

Now i have the items it is time to strip, clean, assess and reassemble the items, paint and fit up. The conversion is "GO" just not sure which one to rebuild and fit.
Is one relay rod & idler better than the other?
All other components have the same part # on them so cylinder and valve will interchange.
Thanks and cheers David
 

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My question now pertains to the idler arms on them.
Both are the correct length for power assist however the bushes are different..
1 has the std bushes I used in the manual steer idler ( I believe this to be the correct one)The other appears to have bushes without the outer steel sleeve and a lot larger in size compared to the other..the same size as the Chrome one below. Keep in mind this is not the one i have as BOTH of mine are the same length so either can be used for the conversion. Also the relay link also has the same to suit. What bushes do i need for the non sleeved bushes replacement?
Re


Thanks and cheers David
Your blue highlighted statement above is correct. The bushing assembly in the chrome assembly is an aftermarket "poor man's power steering conversion" variant. Some had bearings and some had plastic bushings. Opinions on what is best swing both ways. for several reasons. Certainly with the power assist there is really no need to use a "poor man's PS" setup. TO me for a driver I use original components for the front end. The Delrin, polyurethane, or urethane bushings transmit more road vibration and provide a bit harsher ride.
 

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Discussion Starter #26 (Edited)
Back up and short spurts of time in my garage.
An update on my conversion..
I have been working as best i can and have progressed albeit slowly.
I have stripped, cleaned, disassembled, inspected, reassembled and painted my steer parts ready to place in situ. This brings a question at the end after the photos.
I have loosely fitted up the steer system and found all mounting points i needed to find for the cylinder and hose mounts.
To my delight the steer conversion is pretty much is a straight bolt on affair, so very happy with the no mod component of the system,, Pretty much plug and play :)
My pitman arm still hits #5 tube although no as much. I have 3/4 turn now as opposed to the 1/2 turn i had with the std system with just the pitman arm as a non modified factory unit.
I have since modded the pitman arm as far as i wish to go and dimpled the #5 header pipe approx 1/4".
This has given me an increase in turn radius from 3/4 turn to 1 1/2 turns, 1 turn to go, yet i still hit...how i received the steer parts

After clean, inspection, repairs etc,

So steps in the right direction.
My question pertains to the poor mans steering conversion.
As has been mentioned to me there is 2 kits, 1 has the ball bearings ( newest style i believe)
1 kit using plastic insert type bushes (older style & the 1 I have). Upon dis-assembly i found, although it was in service, the clearance between the bushes, sleeve and shaft at the drag link end was tight on the shaft and in the link (no freeplay) this cleaned up fine and i am happy with it.
The idler on the other hand is a different story, it appears to have a clearance sleeve missing. It is the same setup as the chrome one in the previous post to this one.
I have a 1/8" or more clearance between the sleeve and the inner of the bush. The bush looks to be in as new condition and shows no sign of wear. (I would expect it to be worn oval if it was incorrectly fitted).
My question is this .... Does anyone have the installation instructions on this type of upgrade or an exploded view of the setup???
Am i just missing an additional tolerance sleeve?? I would like to retain the setup if I can as i do not have to purchase new Idler bushes if i use it.
Thanks in advance David
 

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You have that gap probably because there are some mis-matched parts put together on one idler arm. All of the parts you described are aftermarket, and there were at least half a dozen manufacturers of various idler bearing kits and similiar. So I think some parts are from one manufacturer, and some parts from another. My recommendation is to buy and install the OEM bushings for both idler and link.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
You have that gap probably because there are some mis-matched parts put together on one idler arm. All of the parts you described are aftermarket, and there were at least half a dozen manufacturers of various idler bearing kits and similar. So I think some parts are from one manufacturer, and some parts from another. My recommendation is to buy and install the OEM bushings for both idler and link.
Thank you Jalapeno in your response,
The 2 s/hand kits i have procured were: a removed unit sitting on the floor from under a bench.
The other was fitted to a car and was in service until we removed from the vehicle...
The under bench one had the factory bushes that were un-serviceable, the one from a working car had the aftermarket kit already installed and functioning.
I do not remember if the assembled clearance I have, was there or not when i disassembled. So that said I believe they are from the same kit..
I also now see that there were many different kits (I am learning this as I move along)
The clearance is still there however when I tension the bushes down, the sideways free-play is diminished, I just do not feel comfortable with the gap between the sleeve and inner part of the bush.. It allows to much room for it to cause a failure.. Hence my reason for wanting an assy instruction..
I sort of understand on the OEM bushes however is there an underlying reason to NOT use the bushes I have??
Can i just make a bush to take up the free play I am not comfortable with??
Is it a Safety issue??
Is it to assist with the self centering of the steering?
Is it for any other reason??
Is it because they fail when the moon is not in faze with Saturn?? :)
Last question is Sarcastic i know and that is all it is, I am just trying to have a valid reason.. If it is the Safety issues then it is a given and will be changed accordingly, however if it is just personal choice then there is no need to change..Just sort the clearance issue i am not comfortable with..
Yours and all others here have given me many great tid bits and advise as i progress through my build. I just do not want to spend cash when it really is not necessary..
 

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Looking at your pics and doing a little detective work, the one pic of the drawer full of parts shows an idler frame bracket with some of the aftermarket parts installed. The shaft of that bracket looks to still have the inner sleeve that comes with the aftermarket kit, it looks fatter than it should. To verify, that shaft should be the same diameter as the bare shaft on the idler arm itself. Maybe that's where the idler kit parts were originally assembled, and you've now got them on the idler itself. With that sleeve missing there would definitely be a gap. Regardless of the parts you end up using, there should be no appreciable gap no matter what.

That said, I still like the OEM bushings because they are one of the things that determine the amount of steering return. Caster does most of that job but the bushings are part of that engineering and do help, in my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Looking at your pics and doing a little detective work, the one pic of the drawer full of parts shows an idler frame bracket with some of the aftermarket parts installed. The shaft of that bracket looks to still have the inner sleeve that comes with the aftermarket kit, it looks fatter than it should. To verify, that shaft should be the same diameter as the bare shaft on the idler arm itself. Maybe that's where the idler kit parts were originally assembled, and you've now got them on the idler itself. With that sleeve missing there would definitely be a gap. Regardless of the parts you end up using, there should be no appreciable gap no matter what.

That said, I still like the OEM bushings because they are one of the things that determine the amount of steering return. Caster does most of that job but the bushings are part of that engineering and do help, in my opinion.
AH HA !!! :idea:
You are correct to a degree with the parts in the drawer.
The idler to link bush has the aftermarket kit installed in its entirety, When disassembled that part has 2 sleeves to make up the inner clearance,
The idler frame bracket has only 1. I think it should have the 2nd as it was tight when i disassembled (so i have most likely misplaced it)
With both disassembled the shaft sizes are the same and do fit the std bushes without these sleeves. The reassembled end has a shorter sleeve so i can not have it in the incorrect end.
I have found some old body mount sleeves i had when i did the body off, These have the perfect inner diameter to fit over the sleeve i have, albeit the od is 1mm (3/64") to large. My plan is to tack the body sleeves to the inner sleeve & machine down (on lathe) to the desired clearances.
Can you see any issue doing this?
So please correct me if i am wrong in the interpretation of the OEM vs poor mans kit,
With the use of the after market kit, i will loose the return characteristics of that part of the system due to the lack of resistance on the bushes..
Where as the OEM bushes will still have it. I may per your opinion go with the standard bushes.
Another question if i may, as far as alignment is concerned
Do I still use the factory specs or do I need to alter them for the setup I would finally end up with?
The configuration is, Std power assist steer, Std "A" arms, 2" lowered springs (I know this places a larger amount of +ve camber than req and will need to be shimmed back), shocks to suit, Aussie sway bar from a different manufacturer.
Thank you in advance David
 

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I don't foresee any issues with turning down that sleeve as you describe.

As for steering return, likely you won't notice any loss of return without the bushings, since most of that task is done by caster.

I cannot comment on any alignment specs for all your mods, but I would try to get as much extra caster as possible (beyond stock spec).
 

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Discussion Starter #32
I don't foresee any issues with turning down that sleeve as you describe.

As for steering return, likely you won't notice any loss of return without the bushings, since most of that task is done by caster.

I cannot comment on any alignment specs for all your mods, but I would try to get as much extra caster as possible (beyond stock spec).
Cool Thankyou..
I will proceed and let you guys know how i fare with the conversion.. My only issue now will be the header clearances..
Cheers David
 
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