[hotrodg726]

no one said anything about termination. just that a union will not be acknowledged. and if they do not like it they are free to leave. I even had to sign a forn sayng I understood that when I was hired on.

 

[hotrodg726]

if all else fails drag your feet untill the economy collapes next year then relocate to AZ where it will be cheaper to operate and then the whole staff losses out. that will teach them.

 

[Bruinfan1966]

Well, we've heard one side of the story.

Three sides to every story, your's, mine, and the truth, and generally speaking the truth lies in the middle.

 

[Trifecta]

Three sides to every story, your's, mine, and the truth, and generally speaking the truth lies in the middle.

Sorry my friend. The "truth" is whatever the NLRB chooses to believe.

 

[davidc]

if all else fails drag your feet untill the economy collapes next year then relocate to AZ where it will be cheaper to operate and then the whole staff losses out. that will teach them.

yeah, that will show those ungrateful peons that got me where I'm at today......

 

[davidc]

But in our "new normal" world they want more, more, more, but less, less, less work.

 

[Shadetree55]

Bob, in all honesty I am not attacking you as it may seem from a couple of my posts, however having worked for a mom and pop type operation for 25 years that is now owned by a bigg corp., heres what I learned. people with good experience and work ethic are hard to find and retain. the place I work at adopted a policy several years ago of surveying the market for our skill set and found that even though they thought they were paying great wage. guess what they were 32.6% below average wage, even having great benefits, yet still below average for same work. after this they did what was called a leveling increase in wage that got everyone up to the current market wage for our industry. for me that was a $6.00/hr raise.
so lets look at this again from a employee perspective. $60k year after taxes is appx $44k take home pay that's $3666 a month. In imperial county the average home price according to google, $365000. that is going to net a mortgage payment of appx $2400 a month. basic car payment of 500 a month that is $2900/mo that leaves 766 a month for food car insurance gas water electricity , diapers you name it. $80.00+ to fill up the average small car with gas! With all these cost currently at an high inflation rate how does a young person ever stand a chance of making it by them selves yet alone think of raising a family. take your kid to the doctor once even with good insurance and you come out with a couple hun in bills. . this is why they seek a change.
the other thing to consider is that when you were 36 it was a whole lot different economy, $60k was a good living in some parts. not so any more. it does require a bit of chnge n how you think about things. not the same world you grew up in by any means. never will be again.

And in the process the increases have to be passed to the customer and price yourself right out of business. Likely the customers who can afford your product NOW won't be able to with increased costs Total catch 22.

 

[Trifecta]

yeah, that will show those ungrateful peons that got me where I'm at today......

Those that got me where I am today have pretty much told the union organizers to go to hell. We have more than 100 employees with less than two years on the job. They are the ones we have spent a year in training. They are mostly in production and warehouse where they might make up the majority.
So if you were the union, whose vote do you go after? But what if there's a layoff, which are the first the union wants out? The higher paid dues payers or the least? Economics 1A my friend.

 

[Trifecta]

Best day I've had in six weeks. Took out both of my 327's out for a spin this morning. Man, I have missed that. Jumping in the 'Vette and get my ears lowered....later
Bob

 

[SLIM]

Those that got me where I am today have pretty much told the union organizers to go to hell. We have more than 100 employees with less than two years on the job. They are the ones we have spent a year in training. They are mostly in production and warehouse where they might make up the majority.
So if you were the union, whose vote do you go after? But what if there's a layoff, which are the first the union wants out? The higher paid dues payers or the least? Economics 1A my friend.

Let's say pre union, You have to cut 50 bodies, who do you go after primarily? Most likely the newer, less experienced people. How is that so different from "last in, first out?

 

[Trifecta]

You’ve never been there so therefore you ask. With the union there is no asking. Last 50 in, first 50 out…

 

[davidc]

And in the process the increases have to be passed to the customer and price yourself right out of business. Likely the customers who can afford your product NOW won't be able to with increased costs Total catch 22.

Why....you don't think any business owner is going to cut their paycheck do you. WE are always the one that gets the shaft....but if you don't have union wages it makes it tough....

 

[Shadetree55]

Why....you don't think any business owner is going to cut their paycheck do you. WE are always the one that gets the shaft....but if you don't have union wages it makes it tough....

you evidently don't understand what I stated. Nothing was said about cutting employ pay--I stated that the INCREASED costs of higher union pay and benefits for employees will be passed to the CONSUMER who may not be able to afford the products sold.

 

[Shadetree55]

You’ve never been there so therefore you ask. With the union there is no asking. Last 50 in, first 50 out…

which sucks because you may have someone who has worked for some time but maybe isn't performing as well as a newer employee. And if you lay off or fire the underperforming employee then the Union is up your ass about it.

 

[davidc]

you evidently don't understand what I stated. Nothing was said about cutting employ pay--I stated that the INCREASED costs of higher union pay and benefits for employees will be passed to the CONSUMER who may not be able to afford the products sold. Geesh!!

Maybe you need to read it again....that's exactly what I said....Geesh !!!!

 

[1971BB427]

This is what i dont get about unions. so, you had an issue with your employer, so you have to go to the union?

If i have an issue with my employer, i go talk to him. we talk, and straighten it out.

That's just not true. If you work for a union employer you can definitely talk to your employer if you have an issue. And most unions would encourage you to talk it out first. You only go to your union if the employer is breaking the agreement and after you've talked with them they refuse to change what they're doing.

 

[Shadetree55]

Maybe you need to read it again....that's exactly what I said....Geesh !!!!

so you are of the notion that EVEN THOUGH an employer is paying a fair wage and providing good benefits to his/her people if he has a banner year or 2 they deserve more? I agree that if that happened give them a bonus or a stipend for those times but to give raises that are permanent if the next 2 or 3 yrs it's not so profitable (such as covid) he's still stuck with those raises. I've never needed a Union to bargain for me to get a fair wage. I've always gone above and beyond what was my job duties and was rewarded on my own merit. Not because some arbitrator went to bat for me. I've never been a union member but sure have seen the effects of a few long strikes and how they affected some of my family members. To each his own for certain so it's not my business who wants to join one.

 

[1971BB427]

so you are of the notion that EVEN THOUGH an employer is paying a fair wage and providing good benefits to his/her people if he has a banner year or 2 they deserve more? I agree that if that happened give them a bonus or a stipend for those times but to give raises that are permanent if the next 2 or 3 yrs it's not so profitable (such as covid) he's still stuck with those raises. I've never needed a Union to bargain for me to get a fair wage. I've always gone above and beyond what was my job duties and was rewarded on my own merit. Not because some arbitrator went to bat for me. I've never been a union member but sure have seen the effects of a few long strikes and how they affected some of my family members. To each his own for certain so it's not my business who wants to join one.

You aren't gonna get an bonuses or raises with a union agreement either. Never got a bonus in many decades I worked union. And only raises were whatever the contract negotiated for. And all the deadbeats got the same raise the great employees got.

 

[copymutt]

Hi Bob, Just an analysis from a distance.
No idea what your exit plan is, but you might want to bring it to the forefront. You have certainly put in enough time to build your business.
Check w/ a sound business broker as to how the scenario would play out given the union threats.
Jim

 

[Carson Blocks]

I'm not in a trade usually unionized, but I still avoid contracts at union employers since they often don't keep their best people, but usually the ones with the most seniority, regardless of skill or attitude and I frankly don't like dealing with people who only keep their job because they've had it the longest, and I could share a page full of stories on dealing with union stupidity. I have flat out told an employer I will quit before working under a union. I'm perfectly capable of negotiating my own rate, airing my own grievances, and packing my bag if I don't like the deal I'm getting.

That said, I think there is a place for some unions. In fields where the employees are practically fungible and treated like a commodity, huge employers that make a business out of mistreating staff, and industries where there is only one employer in your local area (like teaching, police, fire, nursing in Canada) and you'd be practically unable to just go work for the employer next door if you weren't getting a fair shake. In industries where employees can come and go at will though with plenty of options, I see them as parasitic.

@Trifecta I'm not pro-union at all, but was just wondering what has been happening with hourly rates for similar jobs (or lesser skilled jobs) in your area that your employees might be able to move to? I know here outside of San Diego, our local McDonalds is starting people at $17/hr, and the ripple effect is moving up the ladder. Even in my field, we've got an insane amount of turnover as people are leaving for huge salary jumps, sometimes $50k+. I'm all for you holding your ground as a non-union shop as I would be inclined to do the same, I'd just want to know what my employees options were before digging my heels in.