Chevy Tri Five Forum banner
1 - 20 of 47 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,352 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Ok, I have the Earle William's side mounts tacked in and the engine/tranny angle at 4* down with the tranny centered in the frame rails. I had to trim the engine side mounts a bit to get them to fit properly, but they fit.

So, I go to line up the crossmember and it sits above the frame rails by 2.5 inches! I bought my kit from AMP Performance. So I called them today got some guy telling me I didn't know what I was doing (I seem to get told that a lot!). He said I did it all wrong and that I was supposed to have the body on the frame and then set the engine and tranny in. Then tilt the engine/tranny down until the tranny doesn't hit the hump in the floor board. Then tack the cross member in! I told him that the engine/tranny are at the proper 4* down and you just can't tilt until you get clearance! He then proceeds to argue with me about how tire size is gonna affect this and that and blah blah blah....I just hung up. Not too pleased with AMP Performance (Tom, though, has been nice and helpful, but this other guy wasn't)

So, here's my issue. What to do? I mean, did I screw up and the engine/tranny sit too high? I am using Earle Williams mounts and even though I had to trim them a tad, they fit. Also, to get this crossmember down 2.5 inches, I would have to lower the engine/tranny much and then the motor mounts would not even come close.

Anyway, here's some pictures. Anyone with any advice, please chime in. Do I buy a different crossmember? Make one? Does my engine/tranny look WAY off even though the frame is leveled as well as the engine (side ways), engine centered with laser in first pic, tranny centered, proper 4* down??

I hope I didn't screw up big time as I am quite proud of myself for getting this thing where it is! I'm no engineer so this type of work is a big deal for me!













 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,607 Posts
Mike, your doing what I did about a month ago. I have a BBC 454 with a muncie trans, but the setup is similar. I used the CCI side mounts and if I'm not mistaken I think they are shorter than yours, meaning, I think yours have the engine sitting higher in the frame. I have a pic of the side mount I will post tonight. I think the output of my trans is roughly even with the top of the frame, so the cross brace is well below the top of the frame and mounts about mid frame. The other thought is that maybe your mounts are right, and the cross brace is not right. Williams makes good stuff, so my first though would be to look at the cross brace. Some of those need or are made to have the rubber/metal mount block bolt to the cross brace then to the bottom of the trans, if you didn't use it, it would be considerably higher like your seeing. Hope this helps
Gil
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
865 Posts
Mike,

I would call Earle at Williams and get the cross member for your
specific Tranny.

Re the engine angle, body and such. To properly set the correct engine
/ Tranny angle you need to have the frame fully loaded with the body
and all components. We usually "Tack" in the cross member mounts to
obtain a "Close Angle". We Tack the cross member in based on experiance
and the builder of the cross member.

Now we always consider that the tranny / rear end yoke combined angles
are the critical issue, we target a 3 degree total - 1 1/2 each end opposite
angles.

If your body was off the frame and you set the tranny to rear end angle,,
the rear end pinion angle will change as you add weight to the frame. This
is why we Tack the cross member in place.

I can tell you that in installing the LS-1 / Tremic in my '56 we did modify the
floor boards to provide Tranny clearance.

Since my floor board allready had a huge hole from the previous 4-speed
we purchased a new center section and cut it down to mimic a
removable "Tunnel Section"

After the engine / tranny install was completed we set the tranny / rear
end pinion angle and re-set the cross member to the proper angle,
slightly on the low side at the tranny. We set the tranny lower so we
could shim up the tranny to corect the angle !!!

After all the above was completed we then formed the new tunnel cover
to clear the Tranny, took some work. This was easier than constantly
moving the Engine / Tranny to mod the floor boards for cleanance, and
the Tunnel is removable!!

I would call Earle, but his cross member. He can give you expert advise and
is very helpful. I have his cross member and it is a top quality part.

Pro's that build frames and mades these install constantly have the
tools and dimentions from previous fabrications, which us that work
at home to not.


Good Luck,,

Michael...................
 

·
Trifive Automotive Electrical Wiring Expert
Joined
·
27,084 Posts
Does my engine/tranny look WAY off even though the frame is leveled as well as the engine (side ways), engine centered with laser in first pic, tranny centered, proper 4* down??
You said frame is leveled, front to rear or just sideways. ????
Do you have a manifold you can set on the engine and see if the carb flange is level when the frame is level? The manifold is supposed to compensate for the 4 degrees down of the engine.
 

·
Administrator & Tech Articles
Joined
·
52,858 Posts
Mike....Do you have an original bellhousing and still have the frame horns to mount it with? If so, I would mount the engine in its original position with the front motor mounts and bellhousing mounts....The engine will be 4* down....You can then weld in the Earle's motor mounts and they will be perfectly situated....Then proceed to mounting the transmission.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,352 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
You said frame is leveled, front to rear or just sideways. ????
Do you have a manifold you can set on the engine and see if the carb flange is level when the frame is level? The manifold is supposed to compensate for the 4 degrees down of the engine.
The frame is leveled all the way around.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,352 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Mike....Do you have and original bellhousing and still have the frame horns to mount it with? If so, I would mount the engine in its original position with the front motor mounts and bellhousing mounts....The engine will be 4* down....You can then weld in the Earle's motor mounts and they will be perfectly situated....The proceed to mounting the transmission.
No, frame horns are gone. But these Williams mounts are for 3/4 inches forward.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,352 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Mike, your doing what I did about a month ago. I have a BBC 454 with a muncie trans, but the setup is similar. I used the CCI side mounts and if I'm not mistaken I think they are shorter than yours, meaning, I think yours have the engine sitting higher in the frame. I have a pic of the side mount I will post tonight. I think the output of my trans is roughly even with the top of the frame, so the cross brace is well below the top of the frame and mounts about mid frame. The other thought is that maybe your mounts are right, and the cross brace is not right. Williams makes good stuff, so my first though would be to look at the cross brace. Some of those need or are made to have the rubber/metal mount block bolt to the cross brace then to the bottom of the trans, if you didn't use it, it would be considerably higher like your seeing. Hope this helps
Gil
It has the rubber block under the tranny. Unless Earle William's mounts are WAY off, my engine should be pretty close to the desired height, no?
 

·
Administrator & Tech Articles
Joined
·
52,858 Posts
No, frame horns are gone. But these Williams mounts are for 3/4 inches forward.
You must have the old ones.....The new ones will go either way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37,982 Posts
You're at 4 degrees down in the back????

The front of the engine looks good.

But there's something wrong with the picture and I'm having trouble what. First comment is the rear of the trans isn't low enough.

My crossmember has about the same drop as yours.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,352 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
You must have the old ones.....The new ones will go either way.
How do they go either way? Are you talking the rubber mounts that bolts to the block? Or the mounts that weld to the frame?
 

·
Trifive Automotive Electrical Wiring Expert
Joined
·
27,084 Posts
Mike, I just got my chassis from JustJohn&MyMad today. It has the original front mounts. I just measured from the top of the core support pad to the center of the crankshaft. It's almost exactly 5". How does yours compare?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,352 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
You're at 4 degrees down in the back????

The front of the engine looks good.

But there's something wrong with the picture and I'm having trouble what. First comment is the rear of the trans isn't low enough.

My crossmember has about the same drop as yours.
Rick, the frame is leveled all the way around. The engine is 4* down to the back. I have an angle finder sitting on top of the engine that says so in picture #4...even though you can't read it in the picture.

I am curious if the crossmember has too much drop. Maybe a spacer is needed?

The output of the tranny is just above the frame rails.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,352 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Mike, I just got my chassis from JustJohn&MyMad today. It has the original front mounts. I just measured from the top of the core support pad to the center of the crankshaft. It's almost exactly 5". How does yours compare?

Mine is pretty much dead on 5" too!! Thanks for checking yours.
 

·
Administrator & Tech Articles
Joined
·
52,858 Posts
How do they go either way? Are you talking the rubber mounts that bolts to the block? Or the mounts that weld to the frame?
Instead of having two styles, a stock location, and 3/4" forward location, Earle designed the block mount to be reversible to accomplish this feature with the same kit. Installed normally, the brackets would allow for a stock location setup, and flipped driver to passenger will move the motor forward 3/4".

See links:http://www.williamsclassicchassis.c...92:jnewmotormounts&catid=36:chassis&Itemid=56 and http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/236831/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,220 Posts
Instead of having two styles, a stock location, and 3/4" forward location, Earle designed the block mount to be reversible to accomplish this feature with the same kit. Installed normally, the brackets would allow for a stock location setup, and flipped driver to passenger will move the motor forward 3/4".

See links:http://www.williamsclassicchassis.c...92:jnewmotormounts&catid=36:chassis&Itemid=56 and http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/236831/
But he is not using the NEW mounts.
 

·
Administrator & Tech Articles
Joined
·
52,858 Posts
You must have the old ones.....The new ones will go either way.
Nick.....Made this reply in post #9.....I was explaining the new ones to Mike, after he asked about them.
 

·
member
Joined
·
12,256 Posts
Mike, as a sanity check, your tranny tailshaft centerline should be around 1.5" or so above the top of the frame.

The distance from the tranny mounting pad to the tailshaft centerline should be around 3" and the mount thickness is almost 2". So the net of all this is that the bottom of your rubber mount should be about 3.5" below the top of the frame. Something isn't right with your crossmember if it's that high above the frame with your tranny tailshaft set correctly.
 

·
member
Joined
·
12,256 Posts
To properly set the correct engine
/ Tranny angle you need to have the frame fully loaded with the body
and all components.
Sorry but that's not true. You don't need the body on or the frame loaded in any way to properly set the engine angle. If the engine is the correct height in front (verifiable by measurments or using stock front mounts) then setting the engine at 4 degrees to the frame will correctly position it. Loading the suspension has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with engine angle.

Now we always consider that the tranny / rear end yoke combined angles are the critical issue, we target a 3 degree total - 1 1/2 each end opposite
angles.
4 degrees is the correct angle, not 3 degrees. 4 degrees is the stock angle.

Mike apparently has done all of this correctly, as far as I can tell. He either got the wrong crossmember or their design is bad. I would send it back and have them exchange it for the correct one, or buy one that fits.

Mike, there is a lot of room above the frame at that location, to the floor. I believe you have at least 1.25" to the floor at the tranny mount, and more further back. Seems like the crossmember sweeps back in your pics.

I have fabbed a few crossmembers lately and for exhaust clearance I placed the top of them 3/4" above the frame. The bottom of the 1.5" thick tube is 3/4" below the top of the frame, giving 3 3/4" for exhaust. I'd try to keep the crossmember up as high as you can for exhaust clearance, but the one you have is too high.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,352 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Mike, as a sanity check, your tranny tailshaft centerline should be around 1.5" or so above the top of the frame.

The distance from the tranny mounting pad to the tailshaft centerline should be around 3" and the mount thickness is almost 2". So the net of all this is that the bottom of your rubber mount should be about 3.5" below the top of the frame. Something isn't right with your crossmember if it's that high above the frame with your tranny tailshaft set correctly.
Thanks Laszlo. This is kinda what I am looking for. My tail shaft center is 1 and 1/8" inches above the frame rails.

Also, with no "ride height" set and the frame level, the pinion angle is about 8* or so UP from level with the frame.

You made me feel much better about what I'm doing. Having never done this before, I'm quite proud that I got it this far!
 
1 - 20 of 47 Posts
Top