[StoobyMcDooby]

Hey everyone..

I'm using a 267 out of an 1981 Monte Carlo ... Horrible motor, but I'm planning on rebuilding the 265 very soon. Anyways.. I wanted to update a few things, and it seems every time that I did, I had to buy something else to accompany it.
I have ended up with:

* Weiand Intake manifold, P/N 8120
* Holley 600 CFM elec. choke , P/N 0804-57s
* SkipWhite HEI distributor external coil
* MSD street fire HEI coil

Wanted to change all of this stuff in the first place because I wanted to do away with points/ condenser , decided my old 4 JET was trash, so I bought the holley.. The holley wouldnt bolt to my 283 manifold, so I had to buy the Weiand .

Just fired up the car tonight with everything installed. (Had installed HEI dist. a while back, though). Had a pretty poor idle right off of the bat. Let the car warm up and the choke opened as it should, and the idle became less smooth. So I upped the idle screw- it helped.
However, when you snap the throttle, the car backfires thru the carburetor throat ..(so much at one point that i saw flame through the air cleaner!) I've gone thru the checklist / trouble shooting guide from Holley, and I am finding nothing....

I have a feeling that the timing is off.. With a timing light, the car only runs when it is advanced - around 15 degrees. If you retard it at ALL, it just wants to cut off - if you advance more, it still runs like poop.

Suggestions? I am going to play with the Idle Mixture screws tomorrow and see what I can't figure out. The car is semi-hard to start . It turns over fine, fires, but you must blip the throttle once as soon as it fires in order to keep it running. Even then, it still runs weak.



One of my main questions = If you retard the timing, and the idle drops down , is it appropriate to compensate by upping the idle?



Sorry for the long read.. This is very frustrating !
All insight is appreciated.

 

[StoobyMcDooby]

some solutions i have been told:

* skip white HEI is garbage, and most likely is the root of all evil. Could a crappy distributor prevent the timing from adjusting as it should when the dist. is rotated?

* the coil I am using is one of the only ones a I could find that had less than .5 OHM resistance that wasn't liquid filled.. It's actually a coil that is meant for a ford HEI coil-on-cap set up - but it works.. Since it is a coil-on-cap set up, i can't mount it to the manifold as the old coil used to.. Does the square frame of the coil need to be bolted down/grounded? any problems here?


- spark plugs new
- wires are new accel wires
- new fuel filter
- ugh.

 

[TheHotrodHandyman]

Where are you trying to set the timing at? You should be anywhere between 10 to 15 degrees advanced at idle with 30 to 34 total advance all in @ around 3000 to 3500 rpm. On another note, I have used several of the Skip White electronic distributors and have had very good results with them. Granted it is not a high end unit but it does work very well especially for the money.

-Bruce

 

[StoobyMcDooby]

Where are you trying to set the timing at? You should be anywhere between 10 to 15 degrees advanced at idle with 30 to 34 total advance all in @ around 3000 to 3500 rpm. On another note, I have used several of the Skip White electronic distributors and have had very good results with them. Granted it is not a high end unit but it does work very well especially for the money.

-Bruce

I need to take a picture of the timing tab for everyone to see... There aren't any peaks or valleys, so I don't know if each notch is one degree or two...

But, using a timing light or not, it seems impossible to get the timing anywhere close to correct.

Can I compensate retarded timing by upping the idle? Or is that not politically correct?

 

[TheHotrodHandyman]

I need to take a picture of the timing tab for everyone to see... There aren't any peaks or valleys, so I don't know if each notch is one degree or two...

But, using a timing light or not, it seems impossible to get the timing anywhere close to correct.

Can I compensate retarded timing by upping the idle? Or is that not politically correct?

Why are you trying to retard the timing? Typically each notch indicates 2 degrees. There should be some indicator showing where "0" is on the tab, Either a small hole drilled near the cover or a small cut in the front edge etc.

-Bruce

 

[Rick_L]

"Can I compensate retarded timing by upping the idle? Or is that not politically correct?"

If your timing is retarded, hesitation and backfiring through the carb is what happens, and what is apparently your problem.

The right way to compensate for retarded timing is to advance it so it's no longer retarded. Approximately 8-10 degrees before top dead center is normal.

There is no other means of compensating for that problem, regardless of your politics.

 

[icody]

...and yes whenever you change the timing you always should adjust your idle as well!

 

[StoobyMcDooby]

"Can I compensate retarded timing by upping the idle? Or is that not politically correct?"

If your timing is retarded, hesitation and backfiring through the carb is what happens, and what is apparently your problem.

The right way to compensate for retarded timing is to advance it so it's no longer retarded. Approximately 8-10 degrees before top dead center is normal.

There is no other means of compensating for that problem, regardless of your politics.

I'm right around 15 degrees now... If I advance = spark knock ... retard it AT ALL it will bog and die if you continuasly stay on the throttle.

 

[icody]

hmmmm..I wonder if you are off a tooth on the distributer. When you put back in the Distibuter are you sure you installed it correctly on the number 1 at TDC??

 

[56Mark]

Have you double checked to make sure you don't have a plug wire crossed? If you are close at all you shouldn't have a backfire that blows fire out the carb.

 

[56Mark]

Also, are you checking the timing with the vacuum advance unhooked? I have a 283 with the same intake and carb and have mine set at 10 deg BTDC (set with vac unhooked) and it runs pretty good. Try running it without the vacuum advance connected and that might tell you the vac advance is causing a problem when you snap the throttle open. I had a Skip White in mine and the vac advance added a lot of advance. I think I have the numbers written down, but at about 3000 RPM total advance with vacuum would go to around 60 degrees. I switched to an MSD HEI, although it ran OK on the Skip White distributor.

Let us know what you find out.

 

[StoobyMcDooby]

Also, are you checking the timing with the vacuum advance unhooked? I have a 283 with the same intake and carb and have mine set at 10 deg BTDC (set with vac unhooked) and it runs pretty good. Try running it without the vacuum advance connected and that might tell you the vac advance is causing a problem when you snap the throttle open. I had a Skip White in mine and the vac advance added a lot of advance. I think I have the numbers written down, but at about 3000 RPM total advance with vacuum would go to around 60 degrees. I switched to an MSD HEI, although it ran OK on the Skip White distributor.

Let us know what you find out.

runs like absolute crap when advance is disconnected, but yes, that's how I got my readings... i have checked, and rechecked the wire order and it is correct! This is driving me up the wall..

When the motor is set to TDC, the rotor points at spark wire # 1 .. Because that is true, could the dist. still be off one or more tooth?

Also, how did you fit the MSD hei? That's the first dist. i bought, but it wouldn't clear the fire wall by a mile! did you knock yours out?

Let me know

 

[56Mark]

Maybe I got lucky on the HEI. Mine fits, but it is close. When I put in new side engine mounts, I did try to cheat a little and pull the motor 1/8"-1/4" forward.

If your rotor is pointing to number 1 at TDC, it don't matter how you put the distributor in.

I'm out of ideas. Maybe you have a bad distributor or module in it.

 

[56Mark]

One more thing. Sometimes you can find some things, like a bad plug wire, by putting your timing light on every wire and watching it. I'm suspicious of the distributor.

 

[StoobyMcDooby]

Maybe I got lucky on the HEI. Mine fits, but it is close. When I put in new side engine mounts, I did try to cheat a little and pull the motor 1/8"-1/4" forward.

If your rotor is pointing to number 1 at TDC, it don't matter how you put the distributor in.

I'm out of ideas. Maybe you have a bad distributor or module in it.

Riddle me this... I was just watching a bunch of videos and reading some articles.. I have found that most people agree that at TDC, the rotor button should point to the post on the cap that corresponds to cylinder one, correct? It doesn't matter how you put the distributor in (more or less), just as long as when at TDC it points to wire #1..is this tru? I just wanna be sure this is what you mean.

It certainly does not point towards the actual cylinder 1, but it POSITIVELY points to the pole of the cap that holds the cylinder one wire..

 

[56Mark]

Riddle me this... I was just watching a bunch of videos and reading some articles.. I have found that most people agree that at TDC, the rotor button should point to the post on the cap that corresponds to cylinder one, correct? It doesn't matter how you put the distributor in (more or less), just as long as when at TDC it points to wire #1..is this tru? I just wanna be sure this is what you mean.

It certainly does not point towards the actual cylinder 1, but it POSITIVELY points to the pole of the cap that holds the cylinder one wire..

yep, the rotor should point to the post on the cap where the number 1 wire is. Just so happens on mine that also kind of points to number one cylinder. I have my number one at about the 5:00 position looking from the front of the car. I think the wires fit better that way with less criss-crossing (a tip TonyG told me and it is better that the usual 7:00 position).

Maybe the stars will line up right tomorrow and it will run better. Good luck and let us know what you find. :goodnight:

 

[StoobyMcDooby]

yep, the rotor should point to the post on the cap where the number 1 wire is. Just so happens on mine that also kind of points to number one cylinder. I have my number one at about the 5:00 position looking from the front of the car. I think the wires fit better that way with less criss-crossing (a tip TonyG told me and it is better that the usual 7:00 position).

Maybe the stars will line up right tomorrow and it will run better. Good luck and let us know what you find. :goodnight:

you've been most helpful! thanks!