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Discussion Starter #1
OK I am sure that this has been discussed before and I appologize to the admins for this, but my search of this section on this topic has come up empty.

This winter (planning ahead) I plan to replace/update my front suspension parts because most of the bushings are old and cracked and my car "dances" while driving down the road. (my steering wheel go left and right more than straight :D)

The question is, if given the choice would you choose to A) replace the bushings on the original control arms or B) go with a tubular control arm setup and why would you make that choice? :confused0006:

FYI, I currently have a two inch dropped front with power disc brakes. I plan on adding power steering in the future but maybe not this winter.

Thank you for your input,

Dave.
 

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The tubular upper a-arms are not just replicas of the stock ones. They actually are designed to give you more caster than you can get with the stock setup. More caster will give you better road feel, especially with power steering. It will make the steering wheel want to go back to center better.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I am not an alignment guy nor do I present myself as one so please explain what "caster" means and why more is better? In laymen terms please.
 

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A-Arms !!

My new CCP tublar a arms arrived. Boy these are built strong I think you could run these on a dirt track stock car.But they do have a small problem. The bolt on the end of the cross shaft rubs against the boot on the Unisteer R & P. I think I'm going to put a flat washer on the rack mount bolts to shim it away from the bolt head. I don't want to remove the cross shaft bolts as they are installed with red Locktite and I don't want to ruin the threads removing the bolts.:rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Thank you Chevynut for the help understanding what "Caster" does to the drivability of a car.

With what I understand my car would be greatly improved to add "positive caster" because it seems right now when I drive down the highway and run into some "ruts" the car just seems to want to dart one way or the other. Not so bad that I feel like I am going to wreck but bad enough to get your attention.

Now that I have better understanding of caster and the effects of a positive caster I think I will probably upgrade to the tubular control arms. I am curious if there is a kit that can be bought that has everything I will need to change out tie rods, and other steering linkage parts, my control arms, and even add power steering to my car. Does anyone have any suggestions on who I should look at? Should I post this request to Aaron at CPP?

Thank you again for your help Chevynut.


Dave
 

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Hey Dave, don't know if I mentioned it or not, but my brother lives in Stevensville, just south of you. You guys ought to get together sometime and chat. He has a woodworking shop down there called Sillhouette Woodworks or something like that. His name is John Nobi. He's not into tri5's (he likes them) but he likes early Novas and Camaros and such. I think he'd love to see your car.

I make it up to see him once in a while and next time I'll try to remember to give you a heads up. He's coming down in a couple of weeks to go elk hunting with me in New Mexico. ;)
 

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dave, as you evaluate what to do, remember that increasing positive caster makes steering effort harder. You probably won't like even 2 degrees positive caster unless you have power steering, and 5 degrees will likely be totally unacceptable with manual steering. And while they vary, a lot of these tubular arms have 5 degrees of positive caster built in. And you won't have enough shim adjustment to get even close to 2 degrees.

So you may want to wait until you convert to power steering before you buy tubular upper arms. The right time to do either one is when you do the other.

56owner, I would consider finding a button head or other short height screw head. Red loctite does not make a bolt installation permanent except in certain extreme situations. And I don't think you'll have any problem removing what you have. But with your situation, using some with that button head bolt would definitely be recommended.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hey Dave, don't know if I mentioned it or not, but my brother lives in Stevensville, just south of you. You guys ought to get together sometime and chat. He has a woodworking shop down there called Sillhouette Woodworks or something like that. His name is John Nobi. He's not into tri5's (he likes them) but he likes early Novas and Camaros and such. I think he'd love to see your car.

I make it up to see him once in a while and next time I'll try to remember to give you a heads up. He's coming down in a couple of weeks to go elk hunting with me in New Mexico. ;)


Chevynut,

I have a few good friends that live in Stevensville. They are both Chiropratic Doctors and they own Active Care Family Chiropractic on the main strip in Stevi.

I used to own a 66 Nova SS but I had to sell her when I finished college to help with a down payment on my first home. I had a real hard time determining which car to get (55 or 66/67 Nova) when I finally decided to get another old car. I have alwayed loved those little Novas as well.

Can I come with you and your brother and go elk hunting with you? We have too many wolves here now. The herds are getting wipped out and we will probably not have any real numbers again for a few more years before the population of wolves and elk equal out. I expect that within a few years there will be a big drop in wolve population here becaue of the reduced numbers of prey animals for the wolves. Anyway, I will stop before this post goes political. Thank you for all of your help.

Dave
 

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Hey Dave......... this is a long shot, but would you happen to have traction bars on your car? The round solid type? I had these on mine, and until I took them off, I had bump steer like MAD !

Just a thought......Rich
 

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We have too many wolves here now. The herds are getting wipped out and we will probably not have any real numbers again for a few more years before the population of wolves and elk equal out. I expect that within a few years there will be a big drop in wolve population here becaue of the reduced numbers of prey animals for the wolves. Anyway, I will stop before this post goes political. Thank you for all of your help.

Dave
Dave, I'm well aware of the wolf problem in ID, MT, and WY. The wolf lovers seem to want an unlimited number of wolves, even though the agreed upon number for all 3 states was originally 300 with 30 breeding pairs. Since the proposed listing 8 years ago, they've fought in court to stop any hunts. As you know, last year ID and MT had their hunts and took a couple hundred wolves out of almost 2000. They are decimating the elk herds up there, and something needs to be done. Now the animal rights whackjobs sued again and got the wolves re-listed, even though the population is thriving. If anyone cares about wildlife and conservation, please join Big Game Forever, and organization trying to restore some sensibility to wolf management. I predict they will be hunted again next year, if all goes well. I donated to the cause. ;)

http://www.biggameforever.org
 

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OK I am sure that this has been discussed before and I appologize to the admins for this, but my search of this section on this topic has come up empty.

This winter (planning ahead) I plan to replace/update my front suspension parts because most of the bushings are old and cracked and my car "dances" while driving down the road. (my steering wheel go left and right more than straight :D)

The question is, if given the choice would you choose to A) replace the bushings on the original control arms or B) go with a tubular control arm setup and why would you make that choice? :confused0006:

FYI, I currently have a two inch dropped front with power disc brakes. I plan on adding power steering in the future but maybe not this winter.

Thank you for your input,

Dave.
Tubular a-arms are the way to go. The added caster like others have mentioned is a great thing when adding power steering. Like Rick L mentioned, with a stock box the effort with the added caster will be harder to turn. I have driven one with manual steering and it was not too bad! The 500 series and a-arms make an awesome combo.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Chevynut,

It was our own Judge Malloy that made the decision. There is a push by the Montana FWP and ranchers and other groups to get the decision reversed. It will be intresting to see what happens. I feel strongly that if the decision isn't reversed it will be worse for the wolves. Here is why, both Idaho and Montana are states that do not like being told what to do by large special interest groups (remember the no speed limit, that was a direct in your face move by Montana towards the federal government). The issue will be that the Montana FWP will turn a blind eye to any wolf kills as it sits right now because they have been told what they can do and to revolt they will not pursue any wolf kills like they would have done if they stayed in control. In Montana, it is legal to kill "dogs" that harass game animals. The Montana FWP will just say that they did not see any wolves, they only see dogs. That translates into a bad deal for the wolves.

Dave
 

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Thank you Chevynut for the help understanding what "Caster" does to the drivability of a car.

With what I understand my car would be greatly improved to add "positive caster" because it seems right now when I drive down the highway and run into some "ruts" the car just seems to want to dart one way or the other. Not so bad that I feel like I am going to wreck but bad enough to get your attention.

Now that I have better understanding of caster and the effects of a positive caster I think I will probably upgrade to the tubular control arms. I am curious if there is a kit that can be bought that has everything I will need to change out tie rods, and other steering linkage parts, my control arms, and even add power steering to my car. Does anyone have any suggestions on who I should look at? Should I post this request to Aaron at CPP?

Thank you again for your help Chevynut.


Dave
Have you rebuilt your steering box? wandering may not be caster, it could just be a worn steering box.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Have you rebuilt your steering box? wandering may not be caster, it could just be a worn steering box.
I personally have not. Who knows if it has ever been done. I have had the car now for about three years and the previous owner had it for about 5 years and the owner before that let is sit for about 20 years. No telling if it has ever been done.

Dave
 

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Chevynut,

It was our own Judge Malloy that made the decision. There is a push by the Montana FWP and ranchers and other groups to get the decision reversed. It will be intresting to see what happens. I feel strongly that if the decision isn't reversed it will be worse for the wolves. Here is why, both Idaho and Montana are states that do not like being told what to do by large special interest groups (remember the no speed limit, that was a direct in your face move by Montana towards the federal government). The issue will be that the Montana FWP will turn a blind eye to any wolf kills as it sits right now because they have been told what they can do and to revolt they will not pursue any wolf kills like they would have done if they stayed in control. In Montana, it is legal to kill "dogs" that harass game animals. The Montana FWP will just say that they did not see any wolves, they only see dogs. That translates into a bad deal for the wolves.

Dave
To be honest, I don't think Molloy made a bad call, since WY screwed up with their wolf management plan. If they would have had a plan like ID and MT, this would not have happened. I don't understand why they just sat around and let this happen. Molloy just enforced the ESA and determined that you can't delist wolves in some states and have them listed in other states that have an intermixed wolf population. He's probably not out of line for that.

Truth is, they've been shooting more wolves due to livestock kills than they shot in last year's entire MT hunting season. They intended to double the quota this year, and that probably still was too few to kill. There are way too many of them, and this is turning into a conservation disaster that we haven't seen since the early 1900's.

My brother was telling me the same thing. Hunters have an unspoken agreement among themselves to just shoot them and let them lay. It's too bad it's gotten to that point of frustration and anger. I don't think it would be a bad thing if they just killed all of them. :rolleyes: I think wolves are cool, and have a place in the ecosystem, but we really don't "need" them. But the biggest problem is the wolf lovers never have enough. They violate their agreements. They live in other states and they try to dictate what others can and can't do in their own states.

Hurray for the Montana FWP. They need to stand up to this nonsense and do what's right. They have biologists that can see the problems. They determine the quotas based on many factors. They are the experts here.

Wolves aren't endangered. I can kill 5 per season in SE Alaska and Canada is full of them too. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out...but I hope it happens soon.

BTW, I don't see where this is politics. It's a debate about wildlife management and the role of wolves in it. Probably should be in chit-chat though. LOL! :party0031:
 

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Discussion Starter #17
To be honest, I don't think Molloy made a bad call, since WY screwed up with their wolf management plan. If they would have had a plan like ID and MT, this would not have happened. I don't understand why they just sat around and let this happen. Molloy just enforced the ESA and determined that you can't delist wolves in some states and have them listed in other states that have an intermixed wolf population. He's probably not out of line for that. :

Don't shoot me but I am a business manager for a law firm and the way the decision by Malloy reads is it sets a presidence for the environmental groups to use as a basis for all state wildlife issues. If a neighboring state has any population of the animal in question and that specific state still lists the animal as "endangered" then all the other states can not delist the animal. So, in this case, even if Wyoming changes and delist the wolves, Oregon, Utah & Washington all have wolves now and each have the wolves listed as "endangered". On the other hand, there is a specific rule in the ESA that states that an animal that is specifically "placed" can not be counted towards the overall "native" population and not considered endangered. Malloy disregarded this rule in his last rulling and that would be the starting point if our firm handled this issue because all of the wolves in Wyoming were a results from the wolves being "placed".

No more wolf talk from me now.

Dave.
 

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CCP A ARMS

:rolleyes: I just had to go to the garage to tend to another minor problem. While there I looked closer at the unisteer-ccp interferance. shimming the rack(as suggested by ccp tech) woild make the problem worse.I think the better method would be to grind the flat side of the mount about 90 thou ( mount is cradle type like a muffler clamp). I'll only have to remove the arms and rack,mountsand take mounts to a machine shop to have them ground in a surface grinder. I just called UNISTEER and the tech thought it would work with out causing problem if I keep them even.
 
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