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Hello all I have a question

I was at my buddys house yesterday and he was patching a hole in the floor of his 56 with pop rivets and sheet metal. He owns a wire welder which is why I was so suprised he was patching it like this. The hole is only about 6 inches by a 1 foot in size and he has a C level driver.

I then recall a few years ago I was at a resto shop were they do A quality work and they attached a inner fender brace to a 57 with pop rivets and jb weld when i asked him why not weld it he said pop rivets were plenty strong besides welding would damage the paint and since it was a candy job the whole car would need to be repainted.


Just pondering what you guys think and if you have done any repairs like this. I just think this wouldn't be strong enough to hold.
 

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Gosh man I really think your asking for trouble.The correct way may not be the quickest but it is something to be proud of...
 

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I watched Gearz on the Speed Channel the other day and the host showed the floor on the shows project street rod where they cut access holes in the floor for the under floor mounted clutch and brake master cylinders. The access hatches were cover with removable sheet metal panels. I think this is commonly done on streetrods all the time, so I don't have a problem with this method for a quick fix for a small floor patch in a driver quality tri-5. I would apply a seam sealer around the underside edges for a more permanent watertight seal. That's my .02 cents..... others may disagree.

Don
 

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I would apply a seam sealer around the underside edges for a more permanent watertight seal. That's my .02 cents..... others may disagree.

Don
And to keep exhaust gases out of the interior.
 

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And to keep exhaust gases out of the interior.
If you have exhaust gases coming in through holes in your floor, you have more problems than body sheetmetal. Your exhaust system needs work!

Except for access panels, or for some other legit reason (like damaging paint)I wouldn't do pop riveted repairs. It's just half-a**ed imo. :rolleyes:
 

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I pop riveted a patch on my transmission tunnel that I made from license plates the other day. 1/2 A**** You bet.Does it work for me(The only one that counts) You Bet. I am happy w/it.
 

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lol...on my 57, back in the very early 70s my father "fixed" a ton of holes in the floor with whatever metal he could find, and used about 500 pop rivets in the process. did it hold for nearly 40 years and serve the purpose then? yep sure did. was it an eye sore? yep, sure was. Would I ever pop rivet anything after having to deal with the rivet nightmare I was left to deal with? nope, sure wont.

Not to mention, in my particular case, the floor was so bad, that most of the original metal rotted away, leaving just the home made riveted patches, which ultimately cause the body to sag and everything else for that matter.

my advice is...if its 1 or 2 small holes, and you dont give a crap about looks, it will do just fine as long as it is non structural. regardless of the hole size, if you care about the looks at all or resale value....patch it properly.
 

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Sheet Metal

I've seen two different points of view on this subject and I
think that they both have their own merits.

For floors boards, and areas like trunk sections I would and
have used an overlap method.

I had a close friend that owned and operated a Performance
Street Rod shop. Most of the cars were street rods, and of
course their daily drivers too.

I'm an Engineer and have had a few of my own street rods and
did all of my own work, sometimes learning the hard way! But,
I did enjoy some evenings, Saterdays, and my days off helping
at my friends Shop. I fixed the Electronic Fuel Injections Systems,
manual tranny and rear end gears. Because I enjoyed it and his
shop mechanics, hated EFI systems and tranny work. A great
change of pace from my real job....

Point is that next door there was a Body shop that specialize in
Mercades Benz. The owner was a finatic about ONLY using MD
primers, paints, fillers, and Body SEALERS.

This MB shop always installed floor pans, trunk pans, and the like
in only one manner, OVERLAPING Joints. They would cut out the
damaged section and insert the new factory section with an OVERLAP,
one panel over the other and spot weld it in place. They often used
Clecos to hold panels in place.

I was always amazed that after a repair I could not tell that
the was replaced, except for the new paint.

Of course they cleaned the metal panels, etched them and so on.
We had many debates on this subject. But, His strongest point was,
I repace all body panels "Exactly" the way the Factory originally
installed them. But, It must be done properly. If there are any breaks
in the seam sealer, water will enter - then trouble...

My feeling is that for floor boards, truck panels, and the like the
overlap method is an aceptable method if done properly.

Of course in my opinion it would not acceptable for chopping tops,
sectioning, eyebrows, as example. But, it is a faster and a very strong
repair.

Seam Welding is difficult and does take skill to complete with minimum
warpage and other artifacts, not to mention high quality MIG welding
equiptment.

I'm about to start my next projects which include shaving the door
handles and frenching the license plate - I'm going to Butt seam
weld these two jobs. IMO for these two jobs it is the better method.
Luckely I have a close friend that is must better at sheet metal seam
welds then I am...

One thing that I have learned over the years is to get all the information
I can before jumping in. Once I narrow a project like this down were
there are two methods, I try both - On Scrap materials.

Also, For all of you that partisipate is the exchanging of information adn
your experiances, thanks. This is a great resource and a wealth of information.

Michael
 

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Hello all I have a question

I was at my buddys house yesterday and he was patching a hole in the floor of his 56 with pop rivets and sheet metal. He owns a wire welder which is why I was so suprised he was patching it like this. The hole is only about 6 inches by a 1 foot in size and he has a C level driver.
It's his car and if he is happy with it then that's really all that matters

I then recall a few years ago I was at a resto shop were they do A quality work and they attached a inner fender brace to a 57 with pop rivets and jb weld when i asked him why not weld it he said pop rivets were plenty strong besides welding would damage the paint and since it was a candy job the whole car would need to be repainted.
"A quality work" ....Hmmm Not in my book, but I am definitely no expert either.


Just pondering what you guys think and if you have done any repairs like this. I just think this wouldn't be strong enough to hold.
The repair will most likely hold out but that does not mean it is correct.
Only my opinion ...and feel free to call me fussy but
Do it Once and Do it Right ! ...I hate re work, it is time consuming and generally
costs twice as much as doing the job properly in the first place.:)
 

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Hello all I have a question

I was at my buddys house yesterday and he was patching a hole in the floor of his 56 with pop rivets and sheet metal. He owns a wire welder which is why I was so suprised he was patching it like this. The hole is only about 6 inches by a 1 foot in size and he has a C level driver.

I then recall a few years ago I was at a resto shop were they do A quality work and they attached a inner fender brace to a 57 with pop rivets and jb weld when i asked him why not weld it he said pop rivets were plenty strong besides welding would damage the paint and since it was a candy job the whole car would need to be repainted.


Just pondering what you guys think and if you have done any repairs like this. I just think this wouldn't be strong enough to hold.
(strong enough to hold) Rivets hold airplanes togather.
 

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"I then recall a few years ago I was at a resto shop were they do A quality work and they attached a inner fender brace to a 57 with pop rivets and jb weld"

Well that shop is not doing "A quality work" in my opinion and that will be the opinion of many others.

There is nothing wrong with pop rivets. It's all about what works and meets the appearance standard of the owner. The same goes for lap joints anywhere, welded or riveted. My opinion is that if the car is apart, body off, you butt weld everything water tight and make it fit nice. If not, you might want to back off, and consider whether you even want to weld. The same questions would apply to how you finished it out after fastening. I.e., rattle can, POR, or automotive primer and paint.

And if you want to patch a hole with license plates and roofing nails or bailing wire, that's your choice, doesn't mean it's nice work.

It's all relative.
 

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Rivets hold airplanes togather.

But, not pop rivets.
I went to aviation school and bucked enough rivets with a gun and bar to tell you there is a difference between the strength and durability of the two.
 

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I am also a licensed A&P mechanic and when I worked in Aviation we bucked rivets most places. And they're special alloy rivets. I recall about the only places you used pop rivets (high quality steel ones) was on rubber for engine baffling or for non-critical small brackets on light aircraft.

Sure pop rivets work....so does duct tape and baling wire. :rolleyes:

To me a restoration is where you can't see that something's been repaired. That's why I would only butt-weld or completely replace floor pans, quarters, etc. No lap welds for me.
 

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My recollection is that the OP never said this was a frame off restoration just a repair for a driver vehicle.


Don
 

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The repair will most likely hold out but that does not mean it is correct.
Only my opinion ...and feel free to call me fussy but
Do it Once and Do it Right ! ...I hate re work, it is time consuming and generally
costs twice as much as doing the job properly in the first place.:)
Do it once and do it right is good advice.

But most here are forgetting at one time a MIG or TIG was out of the price range for most home mechanics. So what to do if you wanted to make a sheet metal repair?

Even in the 1980s my one brother in law sold welders & supplies for a living. HIS cost for a MIG welder was still over $1200.
 

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The hole is only about 6 inches by a 1 foot in size and he has a C level driver.

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C level driver?,,pop rivet away!!. Nothing wrong with that and the area it is in. I would use a good sealer around the edges. Nothing that cant be fixed later if he decides on a A level resto. Just good to know that he is concerned with his classic and has the ways and means to keep it on the road.
 

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Hey in the Navy the pilots would blow a main mount of a F4J Phantom and tear the landing gear doors all up at the bottom. The medal smiths would take the gear doors to the shop and POP rivet patches on them to put them back together. Was it pretty no. But with 2 GEJ79-10 you could have made Brick fly.Also have seen them patch a flap with pop rivets.
Its a Driver some time you just have to do it, till you have time to do better. I just use self taping screws and license plates to fix the floor in my 3/4 ton work truck. I use the truck to do work, I do not work on the truck. It's ruff but it paid for.
 

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Eastwood sells an epoxy that is used to attach body panels. I'd have to say it's weld first, this second, pop rivets, no.
 
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