I want to expand my occasional welding projects beyond the SMAW and FCAW processes into GMAW and TIG. What are my most economical options for having bottled argon-helium, argon-carbon dioxide when I need it?
economical inert shielding gas options
56 2x4
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Joined
·
12,938 Posts
If you're just playing with it then just lease a small bottle of what ever mix you want. 80cf small bottle aren't to bad price wise. Typically they are $60-100 a year lease and $30-50 to refill them depends on location and size of bottle. Call you local welding supply and ask prices, usually 3-4 different ones in large cities.
You pretty muck only need straight argon for tig for most metals. The argon-helium will cost more (helium is expensive) and won't have an advantage on stainless, mild steel or AL in reality.
Either way you'll need regulator for each gas.
What equipment do you have?
You pretty muck only need straight argon for tig for most metals. The argon-helium will cost more (helium is expensive) and won't have an advantage on stainless, mild steel or AL in reality.
Either way you'll need regulator for each gas.
What equipment do you have?
Joined
·
3,433 Posts
Not much, just the cheapest Harbor Freight entry-level SMAW and FCAW power supplies, which has been working fine for thin gage. But I want to weld some prepared V-grooves on 1/2-inch low carbon steel plate and should buy more power (or possibly sent this to a fab shop). So I need to plan on what I should get for a welder, which is the reason for the inert gas question.
My power limitation is residential service, 30 amps 240 single phase, could probably wire up to 40 or 50 amps with some difficulty.
Was thinking about something along the lines of a welder like HF's Item 64805 for $450 if I decide NOT to invest in shielding gas.
Or HF's Item 64806 for $650 if I decide to prepare for inert gas. It has a little more power anyway.
These are baseline power supplies for reference. Would like to buy used Miller equipment at auction but am not smart enough to know what I am doing wrt welding equipment, just need to weld these plates.
Your response about gas suggests that I should rent a tank filled with gas only as the occasion arises.
My power limitation is residential service, 30 amps 240 single phase, could probably wire up to 40 or 50 amps with some difficulty.
Was thinking about something along the lines of a welder like HF's Item 64805 for $450 if I decide NOT to invest in shielding gas.
Or HF's Item 64806 for $650 if I decide to prepare for inert gas. It has a little more power anyway.
These are baseline power supplies for reference. Would like to buy used Miller equipment at auction but am not smart enough to know what I am doing wrt welding equipment, just need to weld these plates.
Your response about gas suggests that I should rent a tank filled with gas only as the occasion arises.
Joined
·
12,938 Posts
Neither of those has the amps to do 1/2” in one pass. You can do mult pass with a smaller machine.
For single pass 1/2 you’ll need at least a 230+ amp mig or tig. Which will be 50ish amps 220v. The unit you posted will use 20-25amps 220v max.
If you have no need for AL the larger HF unit will work. Its DC only. But will need mult pass on 1/2 a root and cap.
I would look for a old syncrowave 250. Usually around $1500ish used. It will stick and tig AC/DC and will do 1/2” and thin metal.
Also for tig look at Prime Welder TIG. Its 200amp AC/DC for $800ish shipped. It will no AL but doesn’t have mig.
If you’re just doing 1 or 2 1/2” plates then stay around 200amp output unit. Be cheaper for sure.
Also the bottle you lease for a year so keep bottle then when empty exchange for full with bottle for cost of gas.
For single pass 1/2 you’ll need at least a 230+ amp mig or tig. Which will be 50ish amps 220v. The unit you posted will use 20-25amps 220v max.
If you have no need for AL the larger HF unit will work. Its DC only. But will need mult pass on 1/2 a root and cap.
I would look for a old syncrowave 250. Usually around $1500ish used. It will stick and tig AC/DC and will do 1/2” and thin metal.
Also for tig look at Prime Welder TIG. Its 200amp AC/DC for $800ish shipped. It will no AL but doesn’t have mig.
If you’re just doing 1 or 2 1/2” plates then stay around 200amp output unit. Be cheaper for sure.
Also the bottle you lease for a year so keep bottle then when empty exchange for full with bottle for cost of gas.
Joined
·
3,433 Posts
Thanks for your experienced advice. Will research your suggestions. Thinking I will be welding 1/2-inch thick one time only, so may have to plan for multi-pass welds using low-cost equipment, but will still check out your keywords because occasionally it pays off and now is the time.
Update: with your suggestions, I inquired at a fabrication/weld shop what they may have for sale and was invited to just come on in and use their (Miller) equipment (no charge). They have everything Miller there in abundance. So that will work out great. Thanks again.
Update: with your suggestions, I inquired at a fabrication/weld shop what they may have for sale and was invited to just come on in and use their (Miller) equipment (no charge). They have everything Miller there in abundance. So that will work out great. Thanks again.
As for TIG, I use argon for most welding, except using helium for welding aluminum. In my area the best value for gas is having the largest gas bottle. Smaller bottle refills cost more per cubic foot. For that reason, I have "T" bottles, the largest. Recently with all the mergers and acquisitions in the welding industry, industrial size bottles are no longer sold to private owners here. AGA was the local company, then it was Airgas. In 2015, Airgas was acquired by France’s Air Liquide for $13.4 billion. Also, there has been a reduction in brands of supplies available, and as a result, increased prices.
Joined
·
3,433 Posts
That's why I have mostly stuck with SMAW and FCAW. HF offers all kinds of wonderful welding machines that use gas and quite of selection of welding carts outfitted for cylinders, but wonder why the hobbyist isn't snapping up their good deals. Well, it's because acquiring the gas is a Pain In The Butt for everyone whether or not you weld for a living.
Joined
·
12,938 Posts
Most inverter based TIGs used now days work fine on straight argon for AL. So with inverter based machine straight argon is fine. Now thicker AL over 1/8” on a 200amp machine Helium mix is nice to use. Argon is way cheaper you will find vs He mix or straight helium.
You’ll be surprised on smaller bottle prices, the small bottles may cost more per fill cf wise, but of not using it alot you won’t be filling it alot. So initial cost of bottle lease is lower vs a full size bottle. Call local welding supply and ask, call 2-3 places at least to shop around. I know ones here you can get a 80cf bottle the smaller ones that large shops don’t use. Just start with mix bottle of Argon/Co2 for mix.
The HF welders are decent for hobby use, most people avoid because its HF. But they have made huge improvements in recent years quality wise. And more people are buying and not getting hung up on Red or Blue machines. (Lincoln/Miller)
The tig and mult process they sell is ok tig lacks come features other machine come with for less price like the Prime welder.
You’ll be surprised on smaller bottle prices, the small bottles may cost more per fill cf wise, but of not using it alot you won’t be filling it alot. So initial cost of bottle lease is lower vs a full size bottle. Call local welding supply and ask, call 2-3 places at least to shop around. I know ones here you can get a 80cf bottle the smaller ones that large shops don’t use. Just start with mix bottle of Argon/Co2 for mix.
The HF welders are decent for hobby use, most people avoid because its HF. But they have made huge improvements in recent years quality wise. And more people are buying and not getting hung up on Red or Blue machines. (Lincoln/Miller)
The tig and mult process they sell is ok tig lacks come features other machine come with for less price like the Prime welder.
i do a good bit of welding and fab work .
have all miller welders and hypertherm plasmas
i would pick up a miller 215 if you were to upgrade or the new 200 which can do every process with 215 lacking al tig but also much smaller and can do 3/8 in single pass. can run on dual voltages. etc.
I keep one on my service truck with a spool gun for field alum work . I also have the tig setup to do DC tig in the field which has happened for some turbo pipes from time to time. i keep a small steel mix bottle about 50 c.f. and a small straight argon bottle at all times.
for that machine doing hobby type work youll be good with a steel mix or 75% c02 25% argon for mig and straight argon for tig. I have way to many bottles but hardly ever need helium unless im welding something a bit more than my machines are capable of . pre heat aluminum will also help if trying to weld thicker than your machine is capable of.
have all miller welders and hypertherm plasmas
i would pick up a miller 215 if you were to upgrade or the new 200 which can do every process with 215 lacking al tig but also much smaller and can do 3/8 in single pass. can run on dual voltages. etc.
I keep one on my service truck with a spool gun for field alum work . I also have the tig setup to do DC tig in the field which has happened for some turbo pipes from time to time. i keep a small steel mix bottle about 50 c.f. and a small straight argon bottle at all times.
for that machine doing hobby type work youll be good with a steel mix or 75% c02 25% argon for mig and straight argon for tig. I have way to many bottles but hardly ever need helium unless im welding something a bit more than my machines are capable of . pre heat aluminum will also help if trying to weld thicker than your machine is capable of.
There is absolutely no need or desire to use helium unless you are welding 1/2" or thicker aluminum. This would require a welding machine capable of greater than 250A, which in turn would require shop electrical capability of greater than 50A.
If you are mig welding steel, 75/25 mix is appropriate for anything you'd do with a home welder. The cost of the gas itself is inexpensive, it's renting or buying the bottle that requires some cash up front to get started. I don't know what a medium size bottle costs these days in TX - 20 years ago it was around $175. The medium size bottle lasts me months.
If you are welding 1/2" steel plate on a one time or infrequent basis, just take it to a welding shop. You can buy a fair amount of welding shop time for what it takes to get started with a home setup that will even weld 1/4".
If you are mig welding steel, 75/25 mix is appropriate for anything you'd do with a home welder. The cost of the gas itself is inexpensive, it's renting or buying the bottle that requires some cash up front to get started. I don't know what a medium size bottle costs these days in TX - 20 years ago it was around $175. The medium size bottle lasts me months.
If you are welding 1/2" steel plate on a one time or infrequent basis, just take it to a welding shop. You can buy a fair amount of welding shop time for what it takes to get started with a home setup that will even weld 1/4".
Same here. except it is just the industrial sized bottles that are no longer sold to private parties.
Joined
·
1,011 Posts
Same here. Only the industrial bottles are leased here. I own all my own bottles, and they are all in the 125-145 CF size. It is just the nature of the beast if you do much welding. C25 for the MIG on mild steel, Argon for the stainless and mild steel on the TIG, Tri-gas for aluminum with the TIG. Of course, oxygen and acetylene for the torches. some times it looks like a bottle farm over on one side of my shop.:sign0020:
I never pass up the opportunity to buy a bottle if it is a bargain. It is sure nice to have a spare C25 and Argon bottle, so you don't have to run to the supply house when a bottle runs out!
I never pass up the opportunity to buy a bottle if it is a bargain. It is sure nice to have a spare C25 and Argon bottle, so you don't have to run to the supply house when a bottle runs out!
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
