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Brake Bleeding: Is a Branick Pressure Bleeder Worth Having?

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bob p

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I'm looking for a brake bleeding system that is capable of allowing one person to do a full large volume system flush and fluid exchange, rather than something to just bleed the air from the lines and leave most of the old fluid in place.

Does anyone have experience using a Branick pot-type pressure bleeding system like the one in the photo? It seems like it would be a good solution for one-man brake bleeding and it looks like a good setup. I'd like to know what you think the Pros and Cons are of this type of system.

Image


Here are my thoughts on the various bleeding methods. I've tried some of them but not all of them:

Gravity.
Its great when it works but it takes a long time and the technique tends to retain a lot of old fluid. Its good for older brake systems, but it isn't particularly useful if you need to completely flush air or old fluid out of an ABS system (like the Kelsey-Hayes 4WAL in my Suburban).

Pedal.
I've also grown tired of bleeding brakes manually using an assistant to press on the pedal. It takes forever, and again, it doesn't remove a lot of fluid. Its good for purging air from the lines, but its not the best way to purge all of the old fluid from your system. Its OK for the non-ABS side, but not very helpful for bleeding an ABS unit.

Hand-Held Vacuum Pump.
They have small volume reservoirs that fill up quickly, so they have to be emptied fairly often if you're bleeding & flushing a brake system. Once again, this system is good for simple bleeding, but its kind of a PITA to use it for a system flush.

To make a full fluid exchange a one-man operation, it looks like the only options are pressure bleeding and venturi-type vacuum bleeding.

Venturi-Type Vacuum Bleeding.
These setups use shop air and a venturi to create a vacuum, and they tend to have medium sized reservoirs. They look like a good setup and they're not that expensive. The obvious drawback is that you have to keep the MC topped off.

Pressure Bleeding Systems.
These tend to have large volume reservoirs and keep the MC topped off. They allow one person to quickly perform complete system flushes. They're the factory recommended method for ABS system purges (if you can trigger the ABS computer to auto-purge while the system is pressurized).


Recently I had been thinking about buying a venturi-type vacuum bleeding system, or building a DIY pressure bleeder using a 1 gallon pressurized garden sprayer. I'm giving both of these a second thought now that I've found an opportunity to pick up a Barrick pressure bleeding system for about the cost of a good venturi-type vacuum bleeding setup.

I'd like to ask for your opinions on the Branick pressure style systems, and I'd really like to hear about any drawbacks it might have. Right now I'm thinking that this would probably be the system of choice. Please let me know if I'm wrong.

Thanks in advance.
 
#2 ·
Just curious Bob. Why do a full system flush? Have never done that and how often should it be performed? How expensive is the system and would it ever justify it's expense? Lloyd
 
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#3 ·
I've never felt the need to buy a pressure bleeder, but the unit you've shown should work just fine.

I usually use the gravity method on front discs. It's rapid and easy, even for flushing. On all others I use the pedal method. If I'm by myself I put a hose on the bleeder and run it into a jar full of brake fluid. Then you can pump the pedal all you need to. Top off the fluid when needed, as with any brake bleeding.

I've not done too many ABS systems, never needed to, but they should offer any problems except for they have a lot more volume to bleed or flush.
 
#4 ·
Bob, I used a vacuum pump style bleeder to do mine, I did a complete flush, yes I had to empty it but that was when I went to the next wheel, plus to be on the safe side I went around the car a few times, I thought it worked really well. Seems to me unless your doing complete flushes as a business it wouldn't be worth the expense.
 
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Discussion starter · #5 ·
Lloyd_55 said:
Just curious Bob. Why do a full system flush? Have never done that and how often should it be performed? How expensive is the system and would it ever justify it's expense? Lloyd
Click to expand...
Yeah, a full system flush does sound like one of those unnecessarily expensive services that the dealer would like to push on you, doesn't it? I never would have thought it necessary until had a related problem and I did some reading on the subject. here's an interesting article:

http://www.aa1car.com/library/bfluid.htm

as far as the expense of the pressure bleeding system is concerned, it will pay for itself if I use it one time, instead of having the dealer perform the ABS unit bleed procedure.
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
I meant to mention this in the previous post -- Old brake fluid that has sediment in it can wreak havoc on an ABS accumulator / modulator if the sediment gets into the ABS unit. Frequent bleeding is especially important if you have ABS brakes. Sediment in the ABS modulator can require a very expensive replacement, so PM flushing is a good idea for ABS setups.

Rick_L said:
I usually use the gravity method on front discs. It's rapid and easy, even for flushing. On all others I use the pedal method. If I'm by myself I put a hose on the bleeder and run it into a jar full of brake fluid. Then you can pump the pedal all you need to. Top off the fluid when needed, as with any brake bleeding.
Click to expand...
Rick, do you use some sort of a one-way valve on the clear tubing that you hook up to the bleeder? I've used the bleeder hose into a cup method before, and I seem to remember seeing fluid and bubbles moving going back and forth in the hose as the pedal was pressed when there wasn't a check valve in the line. To avoid the bidirectional flow of the fluid I've always used a wrench to open/close the bleeder while a helper presses on the pedal.
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
MightyMouse57 said:
Bob, I used a vacuum pump style bleeder to do mine, I did a complete flush, yes I had to empty it but that was when I went to the next wheel, plus to be on the safe side I went around the car a few times, I thought it worked really well. Seems to me unless your doing complete flushes as a business it wouldn't be worth the expense.
Click to expand...
Its one of those things that pays for itself on its first use if you have the right (wrong) problem.

If you burst a line during an ABS stop, then you'll suck air into an ABS unit. Then you've got a big problem. They're not simple bleed. Bleeding the Kelsey-Hayes 4WAL ABS unit on my truck requires the ABS unit to be activated during the bleed cycle at each wheel. To do that you typically need to have the dealer or a specialty shop bleed the system, because a proprietary computer interface is needed to force the ABS unit ON while pressure bleeding.

See below.
 
Discussion starter · #9 · (Edited)
I've not done too many ABS systems, never needed to, but they should offer any problems except for they have a lot more volume to bleed or flush.
Click to expand...
As it turns out, bleeding a car with ABS isn't as simple as I had originally thought. The proper bleeding protocols vary from system to system, but what they all seem to have in common is that bleeding the brake system using our traditional approaches bleeds everything but the ABS unit. The ABS unit has to be bled separately to get the old fluid out of it. Some can be bled manually, but others don't have manual bleeders, so they cannot be bled manually and have to be computer controlled during the bleed cycle. No kidding.



As an example, I recently did a "complete flush" on a brake system, getting rid of all of that nasty black fluid and replacing it with fresh DOT 3. Then I went out and did a few ABS stops. Within a week all of the brake fluid was black again. The ABS module had dumped its reservoir of nasty old fluid back into the lines, where it mixed with my fresh DOT 3. I need to re-bleed the system again.

I did some research on ABS bleeding techniques and I found out that for the Kelsey-Hayes 4WAL that's on my Suburban (common in recent light trucks), to flush the ABS unit you're supposed to force the ABS unit ON while performing a pressure bleed at each wheel.

The OEM specified procedure is to hook up a pressure bleeder, and then use the Tech 2 diagnostic computer to force ABS ON during the bleed at each wheel. A minimum of 1 pint is supposed to be flushed through the active ABS channel during each wheel bleed. Pumping the pedal won't help when the ABS is ON, and we're talking about purging no less than 4 pints of fluid -- that's a lot of fluid to suck out with a Mity Vac.

The shade-tree mechanics way of flushing an ABS system is to bleed the brakes with the ABS off, go out and do some ABS stops to cycle the modulator and cycle the fluid through the lines, and then re-bleed. The whole process gets repeated until the brake fluid is completely purged. That's essentially the method I used before without knowing it.

From a practical standpoint, it looks like having the large volume pressure bleeder is going to be the only easy way to bleed an ABS unit. I think a pressurized flush at each wheel would be easier than bleeding, driving to do ABS stops, re-bleeding, and repeating the process.

If there are any techs in the house who are familiar with the Kelsey-Hayes 4WAL or the Branick pressure bleeder, I'd love to hear from you! I think I know how to manually trigger the ABS unit ON, but I'd like to run it past someone who really knows the system.
 
#10 ·
With my method the air bubbles won't go back in the hose, you don't need a check valve.

Think about it, when the bubble is released into the jar, it's lighter than the brake fluid in it. So the bubble rises to the top and bursts. So there's no bubbles in the jar except temporarily.
 
#11 ·
I have always one man bleed my brakes by pumping up the pedal then wedging a padded wooden rod between the seat and the pedal and going out to the bleeder screw and cracking it open with rag in hand..this method has served me well for many years:)
 
#12 ·
Guys, please help me a little, still confused. Both my other vehicles have ABS braking. Did not know it was even available for a trifive. Bob, does your trifive have ABS braking system? What is necessary to adapt it for the trifives? Please be gentle guys, I'm learning. Lloyd
 
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Discussion starter · #13 ·
Rick_L said:
With my method the air bubbles won't go back in the hose, you don't need a check valve.

Think about it, when the bubble is released into the jar, it's lighter than the brake fluid in it. So the bubble rises to the top and bursts. So there's no bubbles in the jar except temporarily.
Click to expand...
Rick, when using the method you described, the fluid in the bottle acts as a check valve of sorts, as it prevents any air that gets past the hose from moving back into the line.

i tried that technique last week when i replaced a busted steel line to the rear brakes. it wasn't working for me -- the bubbles wouldn't pass down the hose and go into the collection cup -- they just moved back and forth an inch or so at the top of the hose, near the bleeder, as my assistant pumped the pedal.

presumably that happened because the new line full of air was providing a horribly soft pedal. i was getting bidirectional brake fluid movement with the pedal motion because the large amount of air in the line was so compliant that it was compressing & decompressing and the brake fluid wasn't moving very much.

i tried gravity bleeding to purge the air, but it took forever and it didn't appear to be all that effective at purging the air to the rear lines. i would have been better off with any sort of pressure or vacuum system to evacuate the line. i ended up using the open/close the bleeder method while my assistant pumped the pedal. it took a long time to get any pedal feel, but it eventually cleared the line. once i had some pedal feel, things proceed normally.

once the line was cleared of most of the air, your method probably would have worked fine. it just didn't work well on a new line that was completely full of air.
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
Lloyd_55 said:
Guys, please help me a little, still confused. Both my other vehicles have ABS braking. Did not know it was even available for a trifive. Bob, does your trifive have ABS braking system? What is necessary to adapt it for the trifives? Please be gentle guys, I'm learning. Lloyd
Click to expand...
Sorry Lloyd, it looks like I'm causing the confusion. I asked the questions about using the Branick brake bleeder here in the "brakes" area on TriFives because I was hoping to get answers on the performance of the Branick system in a brake-related area of the forum.

The thread ended up going off on an ABS tangent. Now that we're talking about ABS, it might make more sense for this thread to be in the non-TriFive area.

No, my Beauville doesn't have ABS brakes. Sorry for the confusion.
 
Discussion starter · #15 · (Edited)
Back to talking about regular brakes --

Mike, your recommendation to use a brake pedal depressor is a useful idea, as it accomplishes something in the bleeding process that nobody's mentioned yet:

If a brake pedal is left in its normal resting postion during a flush, then not all of the fluid will be exchanged from inside of the master cylinder. During either pressure or vacuum bleeding with the pedal at rest, the fluid is moved out of the MC reservoir, through the vent port into the pressure chamber and then out to the lines. Leaving the pedal in the resting position will leave some residual old fluid in the areas of the MC that aren't pressurized. By depressing the pedal slightly, the fluid flow changes during the flush process so that all of the old fluid gets removed.

So the take home point here is that if you want to completely purge all of the old fluid out of your MC, be sure to bleed with the pedal at rest and again and with it depressed slightly. A pure gravity bleed, pressure bleed, or vacuum bleed won't accomplish this if you don't move the piston. Moving the pedal helps.
 
#16 ·
Thanks Bob. Sometimes I have a little trouble keeping up. :) Lloyd
 
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Discussion starter · #19 ·
Bruce, I had originally planned on building a DIY pressure bleeder using a garden sprayer, and fashioning my own fittings, valves, gauges, etc. to put it all together. I honestly thought I had an original idea -- I wasn't even aware that you could buy this type of setup until I started shopping for parts.

Image


I found a Branick bladder-type professional system, new in the box, at a warehouse liquidation sale. It was so cheap that I decided it wasn't worth my time to build one, so I decided to take a chance on it. We'll see how it works out.

Image
 
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