Maybe I missed it, but when did Ecklers Chevy classics [AKA as CCI] start to sell importrd parts. In the latest edition of Chevy Classics page 21 all the body parts have a cheaper impoted alternative. If OEM is not available either new or used I want made in the USA for my tri-5. Sorry to see them go in this direction. They need to pull their heada out fo their a-- and not in this direction.
1-bad-57
I disagree. Feedback suggests that the foreign made parts fit better than the US made parts and they're making parts that were not available until now.
We've all been putting up with this overpriced US made junk for long enough, and it's good to see them get some competition. Notice that CARS has significantly lowered their prices on their assembled floors (from $2700 to $1250), but still can't touch the foreign parts in terms of price ($859) or quality.
The US manufacturer of this sheetmetal (Experi-Metal) needs to start making parts that actually fit without us pounding on and re-shaping them, and price them competitvely with the overseas parts. I'm glad they're getting pressure and I hope they respond to it. It's sad, but it's the sad truth.
We've all been putting up with this overpriced US made junk for long enough, and it's good to see them get some competition. Notice that CARS has significantly lowered their prices on their assembled floors (from $2700 to $1250), but still can't touch the foreign parts in terms of price ($859) or quality.
The US manufacturer of this sheetmetal (Experi-Metal) needs to start making parts that actually fit without us pounding on and re-shaping them, and price them competitvely with the overseas parts. I'm glad they're getting pressure and I hope they respond to it. It's sad, but it's the sad truth.
Just received my Taiwan made 55 chevy outer rockers from UPS today and they look great. The metal is tough and the shape looks good. The Taiwan ones have the fender bracket attached as well. When the factory assembled these parts together there was also a piece of attachment metal that started from the bottom of the inner/outer rocker and went up about 10 inches that attached to the "A" pillar. The lower part of that piece is also welded to the Taiwan outer rocker. Back by the quarter panel area of the outer rocker there is also a bracket welded inside just like the factory. The USA made outer rockers are missing alot of extras that the factory had originally included. On ebay I payed 200.00 (rounded off) for both outer rockers delivered to my door step. Taiwan parts are the only parts I will buy from now on. GOLDEN STAR is the Taiwan company.:tu
Just thought I'd add a little to the china parts discusion.
I used to assemble furniture (OK it ain't car parts but read on...)
I worked for a company contracted to companies like Home Depot, Office Depot, Staples, Office Max, even Target and KMart. You'd buy a desk or bookcase or whatever, it came in a BOX and had to be assembled.
That's were I came in. Anyway I'll get to my point. There was/is some real JUNK furniture out there. And there is some OK stuff, and yes there are some GOOD pieces too. You get what the buyer and or accountant for the company wanted to buy. With some shopping a person could furnish an office or house with, cheap shi%, or actually make an impression with some real nice stuff. It's whatever market the buyer was shooting for. I've assembled both ends of the spectrum. And I gotta tell ya the cheap shi% is JUNK.
How does this pertain to auto sheetmetal ? China/Tiawan, can make any quality item you want. You just have to want it. Evidently some of the U.S. manufactures ain't listening.............
I used to assemble furniture (OK it ain't car parts but read on...)
I worked for a company contracted to companies like Home Depot, Office Depot, Staples, Office Max, even Target and KMart. You'd buy a desk or bookcase or whatever, it came in a BOX and had to be assembled.
That's were I came in. Anyway I'll get to my point. There was/is some real JUNK furniture out there. And there is some OK stuff, and yes there are some GOOD pieces too. You get what the buyer and or accountant for the company wanted to buy. With some shopping a person could furnish an office or house with, cheap shi%, or actually make an impression with some real nice stuff. It's whatever market the buyer was shooting for. I've assembled both ends of the spectrum. And I gotta tell ya the cheap shi% is JUNK.
How does this pertain to auto sheetmetal ? China/Tiawan, can make any quality item you want. You just have to want it. Evidently some of the U.S. manufactures ain't listening.............
I whole heartedly disagree with Chevynut. The Taiwanese body peices that were purchased to restore/rebuild a customer's 65 Chevy pick-up cab were pure junk! They were very obviously stamped on dies that were poorly formed and oversized about the thickness of the steel. None of the edges were formed properly and nothing fit, not to mention that they were made out of a much thinner guage of steel. I spent more time getting those pieces to fit than I would've spent forming them myself. The only reason I used them was because the customer supplied them and insisted upon it.
I understand what you are saying Bowtieman, there truly is some garbage out there from Asia. But give it time.
Look at all the parts Eckler's calls "driver quality" or "good" as compared to their "show quality" parts. And even that stuff is still way overpriced! What Chevynut is saying is that some of the highest quality parts for our cars, in particular the newest generation of body panels, is from Asia. The floor pans are a great example. For whatever reason, ($) the American manufacturers can't or won't get it right. I, like most folks will pay extra for a better quality American made part, but unfortunately, we ain't makin' 'em! The best repro body panels needing the least work are from over there. Believe me, I'm not pro-China. Not by a long shot. But I think this is one area where they clearly have an edge. Plus, they're coming out with new stuff all the time. Much-needed sedan parts, for example.
I hope someone can prove me wrong! I hope the vendors are watching this thread. Who wouldn't want to keep their great American TriFive All-American?
Tim
Look at all the parts Eckler's calls "driver quality" or "good" as compared to their "show quality" parts. And even that stuff is still way overpriced! What Chevynut is saying is that some of the highest quality parts for our cars, in particular the newest generation of body panels, is from Asia. The floor pans are a great example. For whatever reason, ($) the American manufacturers can't or won't get it right. I, like most folks will pay extra for a better quality American made part, but unfortunately, we ain't makin' 'em! The best repro body panels needing the least work are from over there. Believe me, I'm not pro-China. Not by a long shot. But I think this is one area where they clearly have an edge. Plus, they're coming out with new stuff all the time. Much-needed sedan parts, for example.
I hope someone can prove me wrong! I hope the vendors are watching this thread. Who wouldn't want to keep their great American TriFive All-American?
Tim
GOLDEN STAR
There is more than one overseas manufacturer of automobile body parts. The overseas manufacturer that is producing Trifive parts far more superior in fit and cost is GOLDEN STAR. Even Starcity Gene believes in this company. I had emailed him a year ago about GOLDEN STAR trifive parts and he said hes heard nothing but good comments about the fit. http://goldenstarauto.com/NewProductsResultPage.aspx?npc=11&pi=0
There is more than one overseas manufacturer of automobile body parts. The overseas manufacturer that is producing Trifive parts far more superior in fit and cost is GOLDEN STAR. Even Starcity Gene believes in this company. I had emailed him a year ago about GOLDEN STAR trifive parts and he said hes heard nothing but good comments about the fit. http://goldenstarauto.com/NewProductsResultPage.aspx?npc=11&pi=0
One must realize that it is not the Chinese manufactuer that is driving the production of our parts, it is American companies that contract with Chinese manufactuers (for low price) and send them sample parts to make. It is up to the American company to demand a certain quality level. The Chinese manufactuer ships what ever is approved by his customer. The Chinese manufactuers do tend to "slip in" unwanted changes but again it's up to the American investor to stay on top of things.
"In the latest edition of Chevy Classics page 21 all the body parts have a cheaper imported alternative. If OEM is not available either new or used I want made in the USA for my tri-5."
In this perspective they are giving you a break, at least they are telling you there is a difference. They would not list the cheap stuff unless there were customers for it. Thank your lucky stars they don't sell only the bad stuff but price it at the "better stuff" prices. It wouldn't surprise me at all that somebody would do that (and somebody probably is).
The fact that "Golden Star" is now making some sheet metal that is better in quality should tell you something also. The marketplace wants it, some entrepenuers made it happen, and now we have more good choices.
In this perspective they are giving you a break, at least they are telling you there is a difference. They would not list the cheap stuff unless there were customers for it. Thank your lucky stars they don't sell only the bad stuff but price it at the "better stuff" prices. It wouldn't surprise me at all that somebody would do that (and somebody probably is).
The fact that "Golden Star" is now making some sheet metal that is better in quality should tell you something also. The marketplace wants it, some entrepenuers made it happen, and now we have more good choices.
About quality from Asia.
I heard a story of a company from US or Europe that ordered some machine parts from Asia, and in the contract they stayted that there were not to be more than 1% bad products.
Then they recived a letter asking if they should send the bad parts separat.
They were not used that their clients wanted 1% bad products. :confused0006:
I heard a story of a company from US or Europe that ordered some machine parts from Asia, and in the contract they stayted that there were not to be more than 1% bad products.
Then they recived a letter asking if they should send the bad parts separat.
They were not used that their clients wanted 1% bad products. :confused0006:
... continued
For an American company that's purchasing a large production run from a Chinese contract manufacturer, its an absolute requirement to station personnel in China to supervise the manufacturing process. My brother works for a famous "American icon" manufacturing company located in the Midwest. Although they still manufacture their own engines and transmissions locally, they buy A LOT of component parts for the rest of their product from overseas suppliers. My brother used to be a "design/manufacturing engineer" who worked in statistical process control while manufacturing products in the Midwest. In the era of contract manufacturing, his official title is now that of a "purchasing engineer." He spends a lot of time abroad, traveling to verify process control by their suppliers in China, Japan and Korea.
What's the point? There's a huge difference between the "western" manufacturing ethic of America/Europe and the "eastern" manufacturing ethic that's prevalent in Asia. Western manufacturing companies became wealthy by building the highest quality products available. Asian manufacturing companies want to become wealthy by building the cheapest product available. Its a totally different mindset.
more to follow...
For an American company that's purchasing a large production run from a Chinese contract manufacturer, its an absolute requirement to station personnel in China to supervise the manufacturing process. My brother works for a famous "American icon" manufacturing company located in the Midwest. Although they still manufacture their own engines and transmissions locally, they buy A LOT of component parts for the rest of their product from overseas suppliers. My brother used to be a "design/manufacturing engineer" who worked in statistical process control while manufacturing products in the Midwest. In the era of contract manufacturing, his official title is now that of a "purchasing engineer." He spends a lot of time abroad, traveling to verify process control by their suppliers in China, Japan and Korea.
What's the point? There's a huge difference between the "western" manufacturing ethic of America/Europe and the "eastern" manufacturing ethic that's prevalent in Asia. Western manufacturing companies became wealthy by building the highest quality products available. Asian manufacturing companies want to become wealthy by building the cheapest product available. Its a totally different mindset.
more to follow...
... continued
That mindset is so prevalent in the Asian contract manufacturing companies that they don't even attempt to build the highest quality product they can build. Instead, they try to build the lowest quality product that the customer will accept. Some contract manufacturers will build the lowest quality product that they think they can pass off on the customer. Its taking them a long time to wrap their minds around the concept of building quality merchandise.
If you're a small production customer, they will try to push all sorts of crap on you. That's just they way they think business is supposed to work. After the deal is consummated, they try to sweeten its terms by delivering a lower quality product to any fool that will accept it. So American companies have to retrain them to think our way. The fact that everyone in the USA is so upset with the quality of goods that come out of China is testament to the fact that retraining the Chinese manufacturers to think our way is taking a long time to happen.
more ...
That mindset is so prevalent in the Asian contract manufacturing companies that they don't even attempt to build the highest quality product they can build. Instead, they try to build the lowest quality product that the customer will accept. Some contract manufacturers will build the lowest quality product that they think they can pass off on the customer. Its taking them a long time to wrap their minds around the concept of building quality merchandise.
If you're a small production customer, they will try to push all sorts of crap on you. That's just they way they think business is supposed to work. After the deal is consummated, they try to sweeten its terms by delivering a lower quality product to any fool that will accept it. So American companies have to retrain them to think our way. The fact that everyone in the USA is so upset with the quality of goods that come out of China is testament to the fact that retraining the Chinese manufacturers to think our way is taking a long time to happen.
more ...
... continued
Even when you try to retrain them, some contract manufacturers still don't get it right. The "swindle the fool" ethic is so prevalent that they just won't let it go.
I've worked on some power supply electronics for HID lighting systems that were spec'd to have a high quality capacitor in a power supply that was potted (encased in black epoxy) for heat dissipation. When I found a higher than statistically expected rate of failure in the power supplies, I took a handful of dead units into "the lab" and dissolved the potting material to do forensic analysis on the power supplies. What a surprise! -- the Chinese contract manufacturer had substituted cheaper, lower quality parts for the expensive, premium quality parts that were spec'd for the build. They assumed that since the assemblies were being encased in potting material nobody would ever know what they had done. That's the mindset of the Asian contract manufacturer. Deception and cheap part substitution are the rule rather than the exception. You have to look over their shoulder all the time or they will try to cheat you.
more ...
Even when you try to retrain them, some contract manufacturers still don't get it right. The "swindle the fool" ethic is so prevalent that they just won't let it go.
I've worked on some power supply electronics for HID lighting systems that were spec'd to have a high quality capacitor in a power supply that was potted (encased in black epoxy) for heat dissipation. When I found a higher than statistically expected rate of failure in the power supplies, I took a handful of dead units into "the lab" and dissolved the potting material to do forensic analysis on the power supplies. What a surprise! -- the Chinese contract manufacturer had substituted cheaper, lower quality parts for the expensive, premium quality parts that were spec'd for the build. They assumed that since the assemblies were being encased in potting material nobody would ever know what they had done. That's the mindset of the Asian contract manufacturer. Deception and cheap part substitution are the rule rather than the exception. You have to look over their shoulder all the time or they will try to cheat you.
more ...
When dealing with an Asian contract manufacturer, you should expect that the product will be shoddy unless you stand over them with a baseball bat. You have to force them to eat their mistakes to convince them that it will cost them more to build things cheaply than to build things right in the first place. Production will be shoddy unless they're convinced that you're such a big customer that they will be dependent on you for years to come. You'll only get what you want if you convince them that you won't tolerate inferior products and that you'll make them eat anything that isn't right. You have to play hard ball with them or they won't build a quality product for you.
There's a good reason that some companies that sell Chinese-made products charge more for them than other companies that sell seemingly equivalent Chinese-made products. Its about implementing western standards for quality control. You can still buy quality if you're willing to pay for it. I wouldn't assume that everything that comes out of China is going to be of the same quality, just because its all "Chinese."
There's a good reason that some companies that sell Chinese-made products charge more for them than other companies that sell seemingly equivalent Chinese-made products. Its about implementing western standards for quality control. You can still buy quality if you're willing to pay for it. I wouldn't assume that everything that comes out of China is going to be of the same quality, just because its all "Chinese."
bob p,
I think you hit the nail on the head! I have a brother that owns an import business selling mostly trinkets and souvenirs (anybody want trifive key chains or something? I can probably get them made for almost nothing). Even with the inexpensive items he is having produced, he has constant battles over quality issues. He says they just don't get it.
So, who is selling the good parts? I do need one of the small floor pan patch pieces and maybe rockers.
I think you hit the nail on the head! I have a brother that owns an import business selling mostly trinkets and souvenirs (anybody want trifive key chains or something? I can probably get them made for almost nothing). Even with the inexpensive items he is having produced, he has constant battles over quality issues. He says they just don't get it.
So, who is selling the good parts? I do need one of the small floor pan patch pieces and maybe rockers.
Hi Bob it sounds like you are a very sceptical person. 
Not to start a long discussion but many of those countrys had a very high and very well developed society when we were dressed in hides. :confused0006:
Not to start a long discussion but many of those countrys had a very high and very well developed society when we were dressed in hides. :confused0006:
BOBP made some good points however he only aimed quality control at the overseas manufacturers. The american manufacturers of trifive parts need a bat over their head to get them to quality standards. I wouldnt be buying quality and affordable parts from Taiwan had the USA made parts been stamped correctly.
One ironic point is that if you sell something to the Chinese, they are the most exacting customers on the planet! If you sell them something, every box, every piece, must be accounted for and checked out in some way including the paperwork. Everything must work to their satisfaction (not yours). They will write these things into the purchase contract, and they won't pay you a dime until everything is perfect.
If they know you will treat them the same way, they will respond. It's part of their culture. Where we run into problems is when the people actually making the goods don't know the difference between good stuff and bad stuff. They don't even know what it is or why it is supposed to be a certain way, and they may not have the tools or knowledge to do it any different anyway. If the customer accepts it, then it must be ok.
If they know you will treat them the same way, they will respond. It's part of their culture. Where we run into problems is when the people actually making the goods don't know the difference between good stuff and bad stuff. They don't even know what it is or why it is supposed to be a certain way, and they may not have the tools or knowledge to do it any different anyway. If the customer accepts it, then it must be ok.
MIKEB
RESTO-WORLD,TAMRAZ are a couple distributors of GOLDEN STAR products. I buy off of ebay. The way to tell the difference between the USA made parts and the TAIWAN made parts from a picture is that the USA made parts are not coated where as the Taiwan made parts are black EDP coated (Electro Deposit Primer)
RESTO-WORLD,TAMRAZ are a couple distributors of GOLDEN STAR products. I buy off of ebay. The way to tell the difference between the USA made parts and the TAIWAN made parts from a picture is that the USA made parts are not coated where as the Taiwan made parts are black EDP coated (Electro Deposit Primer)
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