Chevy Tri Five Forum banner
Cancel
Create thread New Garage Forums

Battery Cutoff Solenoid Indicator Light

Jump to Latest
1 - 20 of 25 Posts

kbuhagiar

· Premium Member
Joined
·
2,551 Posts
Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hello Folks,

While relocating my battery to the trunk on my 56, I am also installing a remote battery cutoff switch. I am only interested in disconnecting the battery when I am away from the car; to that end, I purchased a 100-amp latching solenoid (which does not draw current when active).

I will have a small memory-saver unit (AA #500837, it's like a fuse, but it resets automatically) jumpered across the battery leads to provide a constant low-current feed for station presets, settings, etc.

My question is how to provide some sort of indicator that will light up when the battery solenoid is engaged. Normally I would have just wired a light to the switched end (and ground), but with the memory fuse in place, the light would be on all the time, whether the solenoid circuit was open or closed.

Any ides for wiring some sort of relay-activated circuit that would provide me with a functional indicator light?

Thanks in advance.
 
#2 ·
Ken....I may be off base and trying to make this too simple....However, it seems to me that when the solenoid is engaged and you turn the ignition key, you should have a generator light illuminated in the ON position.

Image
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
55Moredoor said:
When you say your battery solenoid is engaged - do you mean it is supplying voltage to all systems or is it cutting it off?
Click to expand...
Sorry about that, I wasn't very clear...

I mean when it is supplying voltage to all systems; in other words when the solenoid contacts are closed.
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
557B210 said:
Ken....I may be off base and trying to make this too simple....However, it seems to me that when the solenoid is engaged and you turn the ignition key, you should have a generator light illuminated in the ON position.

Image
Click to expand...
Hi David,

Correct, under normal circumstances.

When using the memory saver (which is basically a low current fuse connected across the solenoid terminals), the generator light would come on regardless of whether the solenoid contacts were open or closed, since the memory saver allows for a constant low current feed.

The objective is to know whether the solenoid contacts are open or closed, so as to avoid the possibility of accidentally trying to start the car with the solenoid contacts open, thus tripping the memory saver breaker and losing all memory, presets, etc.

Clear as mud? :sign0020:
 
Discussion starter · #6 · (Edited)
kbuhagiar said:
Sorry about that, I wasn't very clear...

I mean when it is supplying voltage to all systems; in other words when the solenoid contacts are closed.
Click to expand...
Let me try to simplify this a bit further...what I need is a way to visually determine (through an indicator light) the state of the latching solenoid (i.e. whether it is open or closed).
 
#7 ·
Alrighty then :) The only other person that I can remember (off the top of my head) is roger1....You might send him a PM and see if he did something like you are trying to do.
 
#9 ·
Ken - this isn't what you're asking for, but it is simple: I take a separate lead off of the 'hot' side of the main switch (whether manual or remote) and run it as a divorced supply straight through a separate fuse and then to the radio and clock. Although there isn't a light or other tell tale (unless I look at the cutoff switch lever), I sure realize if the battery is 'on' as soon as I try to engage the starter and nothing happens!
JR
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
55Madman said:
Ken - this isn't what you're asking for, but it is simple: I take a separate lead off of the 'hot' side of the main switch (whether manual or remote) and run it as a divorced supply straight through a separate fuse and then to the radio and clock. Although there isn't a light or other tell tale (unless I look at the cutoff switch lever), I sure realize if the battery is 'on' as soon as I try to engage the starter and nothing happens!
JR
Click to expand...
Madman,

Thanks. If all else fails, I may have to go this route.
 
#11 ·
My take is that you have a cut off switch of some sort that when switched "on" you have power and when switched off you do not have power from the battery.
There is a couple of ways to do it if you want to illuminate a light you could use a relay when energized (solenoid closed) contacts feed a light, as soon as the solenoid is de energized the light is automatically off.

The alternate is to run a hot wire from the switched solenoid side to a light and then to ground, when you turn the solenoid on the light is illuminated.

You would incorporate a fuse in the line.

Hope that makes sense.
 
#12 ·
kbuhagiar said:
Madman,

Thanks. If all else fails, I may have to go this route.
Click to expand...
Do you have EFI? I don't think there's a way to divorce the ECU, since it uses the constant main power source for keep alive.

How is the cut-off solenoid operated, by a momentary switch to ground?
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
Hello Don,

acardon said:
Do you have EFI? I don't think there's a way to divorce the ECU, since it uses the constant main power source for keep alive.
Click to expand...
No EFI at this time, but I am thinking about it down the road.

How is the cut-off solenoid operated, by a momentary switch to ground?
Click to expand...
Correct, it is a latching solenoid (Cole Hersee #24200).
 
#14 ·
kbuhagiar said:
Hello Don,



No EFI at this time, but I am thinking about it down the road.



Correct, it is a latching solenoid (Cole Hersee #24200).
Click to expand...
You could possibly use a small latching relay, operated the same as the solenoid and have it turn a led light on and off through the keep alive circuit.
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
acardon said:
You could possibly use a small latching relay, operated the same as the solenoid and have it turn a led light on and off through the keep alive circuit.
Click to expand...
Don,

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm interested in this idea. How would the relay get its signal - would it be from the momentary pulse of current sent out to the coil when activating/deactivating?

And if so, is there a chance that the relay could become unsynchronized with the solenoid, thereby providing a false indication (for instance, if one were to tap the momentary contact switch very lightly, enough to trip the relay but not the solenoid?

My apologies if I seem to be gong into the weeds, but I"m just trying to visualize how this would work (and if it could fail).

Thanks again!
 
#16 · (Edited)
kbuhagiar said:
Hello Folks,

While relocating my battery to the trunk on my 56, I am also installing a remote battery cutoff switch. I am only interested in disconnecting the battery when I am away from the car; to that end, I purchased a 100-amp latching solenoid (which does not draw current when active).

I will have a small memory-saver unit (AA #500837, it's like a fuse, but it resets automatically) jumpered across the battery leads to provide a constant low-current feed for station presets, settings, etc.

My question is how to provide some sort of indicator that will light up when the battery solenoid is engaged. Normally I would have just wired a light to the switched end (and ground), but with the memory fuse in place, the light would be on all the time, whether the solenoid circuit was open or closed.

Any ides for wiring some sort of relay-activated circuit that would provide me with a functional indicator light?

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Throw that solenoid away and do the "Ford Starter Solenoid" method to cure heat soak.
Mount it close to the battery.
Your battery is disconnected automatically until the starter switch/button is activated.
The power feed that normally comes from the starter motor can now be connected to a battery cut -off [Isolator switch] then another wire goes back to the battery side of the ford solenoid.

Attached is a rough schematic of how we wire it on a race car. In an emergency the Isolator switch will kill the engine /electric pumps etc.

For the memory on your radio [and clock] you could tap a feed from the battery feed side of the isolator switch.
You wouldn't need any LED light to show this as it would be irrelevant because the Ford Solenoid is only activated by the Starter switch/button.


If you wanted to get High tech..... Use a SPDT relay for a warning system

#30 post from the battery side of the isolator switch.
#87A post goes to an LED [with resistor] or a piezoelectric buzzer then to ground Via the interior light/ door switches
#87 post is unused.
#85 or #86 goes to the switched side of the isolator switch AND the other post is to ground [these can go either way]

If you ever open the door hop into your car and have forgotten to switch on the isolator switch a Buzzer will sound or LED will glow [you can buy flashing LEDs]
If the door is closed there is no path to ground [so no draw on power from the LED etc]
If you turn on the isolator switch, the relay switches to #87 post [which is as dead as a dodo]

Both LED's and piezoelectric buzzers are diodes that flow one way
 

Attachments

Discussion starter · #17 ·
kerrynzl said:
Throw that solenoid away and do the "Ford Starter Solenoid" method to cure heat soak.
Mount it close to the battery.
Your battery is disconnected automatically until the starter switch/button is activated.
The power feed that normally comes from the starter motor can now be connected to a battery cut -off [Isolator switch] then another wire goes back to the battery side of the ford solenoid.

Attached is a rough schematic of how we wire it on a race car. In an emergency the Isolator switch will kill the engine /electric pumps etc.

For the memory on your radio [and clock] you could tap a feed from the battery feed side of the isolator switch.
You wouldn't need any LED light to show this as it would be irrelevant because the Ford Solenoid is only activated by the Starter switch/button.


If you wanted to get High tech..... Use a SPDT relay for a warning system

#30 post from the battery side of the isolator switch.
#87A post goes to an LED [with resistor] or a piezoelectric buzzer then to ground Via the interior light/ door switches
#87 post is unused.
#85 or #86 goes to the switched side of the isolator switch AND the other post is to ground [these can go either way]

If you ever open the door hop into your car and have forgotten to switch on the isolator switch a Buzzer will sound or LED will glow [you can buy flashing LEDs]
If the door is closed there is no path to ground [so no draw on power from the LED etc]
If you turn on the isolator switch, the relay switches to #87 post [which is as dead as a dodo]

Both LED's and piezoelectric buzzers are diodes that flow one way
Click to expand...
kerrynzl,

Thanks for the input! :flag6:

I appreciate your efforts, and I know your wiring method is endorsed by many on this forum... but what I already have in place works fine and is perfectly suited for my application.
 
#18 ·
kbuhagiar said:
kerrynzl,

Thanks for the input! :flag6:

I appreciate your efforts, and I know your wiring method is endorsed by many on this forum... but what I already have in place works fine and is perfectly suited for my application.
Click to expand...
So what end result are you trying to achieve?

Do you want a light to glow [or flash] with the battery disconnected and switch off when you connect,

Does that small memory saver have it's own internal battery source [and charging source]???
If so ,What voltage??


Are you sure your "Latching solenoid" [which is a relay] doesn't draw current when "active" [which means switched on!]
 
Discussion starter · #19 · (Edited)
kerrynzl said:
Are you sure your "Latching solenoid" [which is a relay] doesn't draw current when "active" [which means switched on!]
Click to expand...
Yes, quite sure. It is NOT a relay, it is a SOLENOID:

https://www.waytekwire.com/item/77025/Cole-Hersee-24200-Insulated-Continuous-Duty-/

It is an industry standard unit, used in many remote battery disconnect kits by Painless and American Autowire, among others. I chose it specifically because it does NOT draw any current when either open or closed, only a small amount when switching between states.

So what end result are you trying to achieve?
Click to expand...
Please re-read my original post.

Does that small memory saver have it's own internal battery source [and charging source]???
If so ,What voltage??
Click to expand...
The term memory saver is a bit of a misnomer; it is merely a low-current circuit breaker which is jumpered across the primary terminals of the battery cutoff device (in this case the solenoid).

https://www.americanautowire.com/shop/memory-retainer-assembly-remote-lifeline

It provides power to retain memory for radio presets, etc when the solenoid is open. This method of providing low current for memory retention is very common here in the States, although in most situations it is a fuse (instead of a breaker) and is used in conjunction with a manual battery cutoff switch.

Do you want a light to glow [or flash] with the battery disconnected and switch off when you connect
Click to expand...
I want some indication when the solenoid is closed. The solenoid is controlled by a momentary contact switch, which toggles it between open and closed states; therefore at the present there is no way to determine, at a glance, whether the solenoid is open or closed. And if I accidentally attempt to start the car while the solenoid is in the open position, I'll pop the breaker and lose my settings. Unfortunately, having the memory saver in the circuit eliminates the very simple option of having a light on the switched (load) side of the circuit, since there will always be a low current present whether the solenoid is open or closed.

Okay, got that?

Good. I'm gonna go take a nap now. :sign0020:
 
#20 · (Edited)
I plan on using a latching solenoid disconnect on my car too and would also want to know with a small light whether it open or closed since it's momentary trigger. I would think just a light on the load side would work for that fine. As far as memory I wouldn't jumper across the relay, but just use a separate feed off the always hot side from the battery that would only be connected to the memory circuit. That would keep it alive with the relay open or closed, and even if you forgot to turn on the disconnect nothing bad would happen.
Thanks for the heads up on the supplier for the latching disconnect. The wiring places want twice that much for them.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
About this Discussion
24 Replies
9 Participants
Last post:
kerrynzl
Chevy Tri Five Forum
posts
2.6M
members
72K
Since
2005
A forum community dedicated to 1955, 1956, and 1957 Chevy owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about restoration, engine swaps, reviews, performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! Open to all models including Belair, 210, 150, Sedans, and Nomads.
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
Chit Chat Area, Anything on your mind goes here. New Member Introductions Stock Chevy Discussion 55-56-57 Project Update Section, Post Project Updates Here Suspension Questions Chassis, Brakes, Shocks, Etc