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4 Speed linkage

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4.2K views 18 replies 6 participants last post by  mn1500  
#1 ·
The previous owner removed an automatic transmission and installed a floor shift 4 speed and did not use the stock Z bar mounting hardware. I believe he used new correct parts inside the cab of the car but he changed how the Z bar is mounted. He welded bar stock to the frame and installed a Z bar on that bar stock, not sure if the Z bar is for a 57 or not. I have recently installed a 1990 1 piece 350 and the T10 with aluminum bellhousing (P/N 3899621) the previous owner had in the car. I saw a kit offered by Southwest Speed (P/N 650-4634) but after calling and talking to their representative he talked me out of it, he said unless my car was completely stock not to use his kit. My question is if I purchase a clutch frame bracket with pivot ball where do I weld it to the frame to correctly start the installation of the Z bar? Are dimensions available somewhere? My second question is, since I don't have a stock 57 bellhousing how do I mount the pivot ball on the motor side, do I use the hole above the oil filter? I understand I will also need some additional parts felt washers, adjusting rod, ( I did not use a 57 clutch fork, but used a 69 Chevy fork) etc. I tried to use the previous owners setup but when the clutch pedal is pushed in, everything is fine, but it makes a clunking noise when the pedal is almost fully released, and I have not been able to figure out the issue so I am going to start with a correctly mounted Z bar. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
#2 ·
You will be interested in seeing this article:
 

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#3 ·
Pops, that is a great article. Sounds like in my case the article wants to mount the inner cross shaft pivot first and work backwards to weld the frame bracket last. I thought the cross shaft geometry would be based on the push rod coming from the clutch pedal and any differences due to engine position would be made up on the clutch adjustment rod. If working backward works I have no issue with following these instructions. The article provides a list of parts, most of which seem to be standard 57 parts but where can part number 08-21 (inner cross shaft pivot) be purchased? Unless I missed it not sure where the list of parts from the article are sold?
Thanks,
Mike
 
R
#4 ·
Two things important here. The engine must be in the stock fore/aft position. If not you'll have to modify the engine side pivot ball bracket. That bracket, to use with a 621 or similar bellhousing, is available commercially. If made correctly and the engine is in the stock location, then your concern is solved, as the z-bar will be in the correct location.

The location of the outer pivot ball and bracket is detailed in the assembly manual.

You also need to use stock clutch linkage parts and clutch fork. All the 57 pieces are reproduced and for me the 57 clutch fork is the best setup with its clevis pin attachment to the linkage rod, rather than the ball/socket arrangement of 55-56. The 57 z-bar is also different from the others.
 
#5 ·
Rick,
Is this the assembly manual you are refereeing to above for the proper frame bracket location? I see the frame bracket in detail D but no real dimension on where it is installed? The reason I am asking about this location is I don't know if the motor is mounted in its stock fore/aft position, the side motor mounts were installed by a previous owner. I am simply trying to install the z bar in the correct location. If anyone can help with the correct location (dimensions to bracket) I can install the frame bracket and then modify the engine side pivot ball bracket.
Thanks,
Mike
 

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R
#6 ·
What you're looking at is the sheet that shows what the parts are and how to install them.

Instead, look at Section 2, Sheet 2. This shows where the pivot ball and bracket is welded to the frame with dimensions. The hard part about this is that the zero datum is hard to locate on an assembled car. But there is a depression in the frame rail where the flat part of the bracket sits.

As far as knowing whether the engine is in the stock location, try this. Do you have a stock style (small diameter) distributor? If so the clearance between the cap and firewall should be a finger thickness or a little more. If the engine is moved forward, there will be more room with the stock distributor, or enough room for a big cap HEI distributor.
 
#7 ·
I guess I don't have or know where Section 2, sheet 2 is located. This issue has frustrated me for about a month now and at this point I don't really want to purchase 2 - 3 hundred dollars on linkage parts to guess at the correct installation location. Seems like if I install it incorrectly it is no better than what the previous owner installed. I am sure this is easy for some of you but it is real frustrating to me. I will drop in the small diameter distributor tomorrow and use 1/2" or 5/8" for a finger width. I am guessing if it is more than the 1/2" or 5/8" that is the amount I need to move the engine side pivot ball bracket forward and work backward from the article Pops provided. Sorry everyone I am not mad at anyone on this site just real frustrated, maybe it is time to take a step back.
Thanks again,
 
H
#10 ·
I too found it elusive, but the assembly manual does give the location, but you must do some calculating. The 1st thing I did was go to a copier and enlarge the frame drawing in Section 2, sheet 17.(too hard to read small print at my age). Using the Gage hole centerline, notice in the side view at the bottom of the page, the 12.88 dimension to the "B" hole. (This is the steering box mounting hole.) If you now look at Section 2, Sheet 2, the centerline of the clutch pivot ball is specified as 17.36 inches back from the gage hole centerline. Doing the math, this yields a difference of 4.48 inches from the steering box hole to the centerline of the ball stud. You now have the fore/aft distance from the steering box hole. For the vertical dimension, it is a little more subtle. Again referring to Section 2, sheet 2.00, there is an 11.88 dimension shown near the rear axle arch which is the height of the ball stud relative to the imaginary "0" line of the frame drawing. Going back the Section 2, sheet 17 drawing, there is a 7.58 inch dimension to this same "B" hole. Again doing the math, this results in a vertical dimension of 4.10 inches up from the "B" steering box hole. So the height and front to rear dimension are both taken from the "B": hole. I have a bare frame that needed the ball stud plate installed, and I used these dimensions, and verified with a stock bell housing motor mounts, and stock 57 components and it is in perfect position. (now welded in place),.You will need both of the sheets from the 57 assembly manual. I hope you can follow what I did. Good luck
 
#12 ·
Hillbilly823, that is exactly what I was looking for. You put that together with those two assembly drawings to come up with exactly what I was looking for. I knew someone on this site has had the same issue as I do. I cant thank you enough.

Rick, you too have been extremely helpful. I want you to know I went out and dropped in my small diameter distributor and your description about a fingers width between the cap and firewall was spot on. Once I dropped the distributor in I had just enough room to slide my fingers behind the cap, just like I would grab it to adjust the timing. I believe this indicates the motor is in the stock fore/aft position. Now I think I have two ways to install the z bar linkage, follow the description in the article Pops provided and also check the placement of the frame mount pivot from the dimensions Hillbilly823 provided.

Pops, can't leave you out thanks a bunch for that article. I will definitely use both methods to install the original clutch linkage in place.
 
#13 ·
Sorry everyone but I am ordering parts and I have one more question. It appears that under the dash most if not all of the clutch linkage parts have recently been replaced. What I want to confirm before I order parts is if the push rod between the z bar and the clutch pedal is the correct length for a 57. See the pictures attached, it measures just a bit longer than 15 1/4" between the L shaped attaching rod and the hole that mounts to the z bar. Is 15 1/4" the correct length rod for a 57? If this rod is correct I am going to order the remaining parts down stream of this.
Thanks again,
Mike
 

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