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55 Tony

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🐔County, TN. 55 Bel Air Sport Coupe
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Discussion starter · #1 ·
The 55 sat for 3, maybe 4 weeks without being started. I went to start it the usual way, 1 pump and crank. Gave it a full pump, then cranked for maybe 1 1/2 seconds and it didn't fire up. Had to give it a second pump and crank it for about another 1 1/2 seconds before it started and ran smooth on high idle.
These dang carbs just aren't reliable. :D :love:
 
What kind of carb? and how many? Fuel can either leak or evaporate from the fuel bowls when not driven for a few weeks... short of pouring a bit of gasoline into the fuel bowls when starting after a long 'rest', I don't know what the solution is...
 
I'm tempted not to respond, but I'm going to comment on this one last time...

It is possible for fuel to leak out of a carburetor through a defective plug. Said plugs are installed as part of the manufacturing process in cases where a passageway has to be drilled after the carburetor bowl is cast. Drill bits and drill presses being what they are, such holes have to be made and then plugged.

But - if that's the problem, you should see a discoloration around said plug from fuel weeping past the plug. In severe cases, you'll see fuel dripping from said plug. If you don't see said discoloration, you don't have a weeping plug.

It is not - repeat, NOT - possible for a defective fuel pump to siphon the fuel out of the carburetor bowl. The needle and seat are in the air horn, and therefore sit above the level of fuel in the bowl. If the fuel pump has a leaking diaphragm or valve, it will drain the line from the pump to the carb. Because the needle and seat are above the fuel, all that gets sucked out of the fuel bowl is air.

I am 100% certain about the above paragraph. I have an example of every factory carburetor used on tri-fives (BC, 2GC, 4GC, WCFB), and have taken them apart. I've also read the specs on setting float levels. See RCB Index for the factory data sheets for your particular carb. Read the spec, take the air horn off your carb, and get out a ruler - you'll see siphoning is impossible.

If you argue, "but I'm running a Holley, Edelbrock, 3 Stromberg 97s, a Whiz-Bang Super Duper carb" or whatever - no, I haven't torn apart one of your carbs. But, if your carb has the needle and seat in the air horn, I stand by the above statements. Unless your carb's fuel inlet is near the bottom of the bowl, the leaking fuel pump theory simply isn't valid. I've never seen such a carb design, so if you have one, please post a picture.

For those of you running Edelbrock Performer carbs - take a look at page 20 of https://www.edelbrock.com/pub/media/wysiwyg/documents/carb-owners-manual.pdf . The needle and seat are in the air horn - above the bowl, and above the level of the fuel.

Some Holley and Carter carburetors have screw-in plugs in the side of the bowl for checking fuel level. The idea is - if you remove the plug and fuel just barely drips out, your fuel level (and therefore your float setting) is correct. Guess what - the bottom of that threaded hole is comfortably below the needle and seat mating surface.

Once again - unless your needle and seat sit below the normal fuel level in the bowl, siphoning is impossible. And, even if they did, the fuel could only drain down to the bottom of the seat. Every carburetor I've ever worked on has the seat above the bowl - not in the bottom of the bowl.

That leaves evaporation of fuel out of the carb bowl. So, let's talk about that.

Every carburetor has a bowl vent inside the carburetor throat at the top of the air horn (inside the air cleaner). Most also have an "idle vent" that sits outside the air cleaner (See my photos at geekin' out on carburetors ). The air pressure differential between the vent(s) and the venturi is what forces the fuel out of the bowl. Without said vent, the carburetor wouldn't work. Unfortunately, that vent also gives fuel vapors a path to escape.

I have to crank my '57 (283 with WCFB) twice before it'll start if it's been sitting for a few weeks. If it's been sitting overnight - one pump of the accelerator, turn the key, and bang, it starts. When sitting overnight, it starts faster than my modern cars with fuel injection. When sitting for a few weeks, it starts faster with the WCFB than when I used a 4GC, because the fuel bowls on a 4GC are much bigger than a WCFB.

The other consideration is fuel itself. We think of fuel volatility as a bad thing. It's not the case. In fact, it's the more volatile components of the mixture we call gasoline that actually allow us to start a cold engine.

Last week, I attended a session on carburetors given by a retired Rochester carburetor engineer in our car club. He told of participating in some extended testing of cold-start scenarios, where all of the "big 3" brought their cars and engineers to a testing site with all the major oil companies. They tested cold starts with low, medium, and high volatility fuels at precisely 40 degrees ambient temperature.

The test was - when the outside temperature reached 40 degrees in the morning, start the car, idle for 5 seconds, put it in drive, and floor it. The result - high volatility fuels hands-down won in that situation.

So, even if the fuel in your carb bowl hasn't completely evaporated - if only the higher-volatility components of the fuel have evaporated, it'll be harder to start.

Whew - that was longer than I'd planned...
 
Mechanical or electric choke?
 
been pretty chilly last few days in the smokies. Personally, I don't consider that amount of cranking excessive. I'm assuming it's garaged. Is garage heated?? Fuel evaporation sitting a month and cold weather to boot. I don't see a few seconds crank time over kill. Here when it's been pretty cold I usually give 2 or 3 full pumps before even trying to crank engine or go ahead and give a couple pumps WHILE cranking if it's been sitting. Fuel is not as volatile when it is cold since it's more dense.
 
in my years of auto repair and growing up through non-fuel injection. Rebuilt MANY carbs and 5 identical carburetors (like women) can have 5 different personalities LOL
 
I don't know about the rest of you guys? I read the original post as sarcasm, and that the OP is very pleased with the reliability of his carb.

Steve
Sarcasm or not - it appears to have "stirred the pot" regarding "why won't my tri-five start on the first try after sitting for a few weeks?".

Oh boy, here we go again - the myth of leaky fuel pumps siphoning the fuel out of the carb bowl. I see it coming....and I am sooooo tired of hearing that....

So, I decided to vent about carburetor vents. :)
 
Around here the gas we have loses potency at an alarming rate. 3 weeks of gas sitting in a vented fuel bowl could have yanked the "pop" right out of it.

I do not know if Tony had ethanol in his gas but that type of fuel "out-gasses" very rapidly and the product left in the float bowls is mostly water if that happens.
 
Sarcasm or not - it appears to have "stirred the pot" regarding "why won't my tri-five start on the first try after sitting for a few weeks?".

Oh boy, here we go again - the myth of leaky fuel pumps siphoning the fuel out of the carb bowl. I see it coming....and I am sooooo tired of hearing that....

So, I decided to vent about carburetor vents. :)

One thing is absolutely certain, It (gas) can not siphon back as you already mention.
 
Discussion starter · #16 ·
Yes guys just joking. Was meant for some laughs, I thought that if the two 1.5 second cranks it took to start it didn't give it away, the emojis would definitely set things straight. And I put it in the chat section instead of the fuel/carb section.

Anyway, sorry for the confusion and wasted time.

And yes Stoveboltgeek, (I forget everyone's name) I do know fully well that you can't siphon gas when the upper opening is ABOVE the fuel level. Hey, some people swear clothespins on the fuel line can cure vapor lock and will continue to believe it till the day they leave this earth. I suppose it will remain the same for the fuel pump/gas siphoning problem that doesn't exist.

By the way, it's a Holley 850 cfm (80531 4150 style) that I bought for $50 and put about $125 into it. It looked like new but the owner couldn't get it to run. Most of the money I spent was on the quick fuel? kit to adjust the secondary opening time. Still don't like it but not sure I want to take a chance on a mechanical secondary that large. I do have one that seemed to work well but I'm always looking for more, it's an 800 cfm spreadbore Holley, mechanical secondary. This one, although my engine doesn't shouldn't need an 850 cfm, it seems to go better at WOT than the 800?

Maybe one day I'll throw on the single plane air gap on it and slow down the secondaries of this carb and see what happens?
 
Yes guys just joking. Was meant for some laughs, I thought that if the two 1.5 second cranks it took to start it didn't give it away, the emojis would definitely set things straight. And I put it in the chat section instead of the fuel/carb section.

Anyway, sorry for the confusion and wasted time.

And yes Stoveboltgeek, (I forget everyone's name) I do know fully well that you can't siphon gas when the upper opening is ABOVE the fuel level. Hey, some people swear clothespins on the fuel line can cure vapor lock and will continue to believe it till the day they leave this earth. I suppose it will remain the same for the fuel pump/gas siphoning problem that doesn't exist.

By the way, it's a Holley 850 cfm (80531 4150 style) that I bought for $50 and put about $125 into it. It looked like new but the owner couldn't get it to run. Most of the money I spent was on the quick fuel? kit to adjust the secondary opening time. Still don't like it but not sure I want to take a chance on a mechanical secondary that large. I do have one that seemed to work well but I'm always looking for more, it's an 800 cfm spreadbore Holley, mechanical secondary. This one, although my engine doesn't shouldn't need an 850 cfm, it seems to go better at WOT than the 800?

Maybe one day I'll throw on the single plane air gap on it and slow down the secondaries of this carb and see what happens?
Gotta love the clothes pin trick LOL. I actually know a guy who reran his fuel line coiled around his A/C suction line to keep his from vapor locking in hot weather and swore he got better fuel mileage.
 
Discussion starter · #19 ·
Gotta love the clothes pin trick LOL. I actually know a guy who reran his fuel line coiled around his A/C suction line to keep his from vapor locking in hot weather and swore he got better fuel mileage.
That's a pretty good trick using the cold a/c line to cool the fuel! I think I like it! I don't know about the fuel mileage though. o_O
 
That's a pretty good trick using the cold a/c line to cool the fuel! I think I like it! I don't know about the fuel mileage though. o_O
I think his imagination. Introducing cold air in the intake increases mileage, not cold fuel. Maybe incorporate a cold air intake with the suction side of A/C. Connect the snorkel to the receiver dryer. Constantly sucking 40 degree air into the breather
 
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