[CamTra]

Here goes, I'm not the most mechanical person so please bare with me, I have a 56 Bel Air with an original 3 speed manual transmission on the column, my car has a 350 installed with it so it runs high rpms around 55 mph. I'd love to convert to a 4 speed manual on the column. My question is, is there such an animal as a 4 speed manual with a column shift that will fit my Chevy? If so, what type of upgrade, if any, will I need to do to my current column?

 

[pistoncan]

I personally don't know of any 4 speed that has a column shift. The shift column isn't set up for more than three and reverse anyway.

I would point out to you that no matter if it is a 3 speed or a 4 speed, top gear is generally 1:1 so your engine will still be turning at the same RPM.

I would suggest that you research a borg warner three speed overdrive transmission for your car. That is what I have in mine.

A little history. in the 50's automatic transmissions were in their infancy and they weren't very good. The BW overdrive was sort of a semi-automatic. The only time you have to step on the clutch is when you come to a dead stop. Otherwise you shift like normal but without the clutch. Not only that, when the tranny shifts into overdrive the reduction is about .75:1 On mine at 70mph I am turning 2100 RPM on the engine. I love it

They are a little hard to find and a little more pricey but you retain the three speed shifter on the column and it is totally original. Chevy offered them from the factory.

Gary

 

[Pops @ Tri-5.com]

DZAUTO (Tom) was talking about using a column shift with a four speed the other day.....It involves modifying the shift rods somewhat and using a cable for the reverse....See this thread:https://www.trifive.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187864&highlight=transmission&page=2

The first time we put a 4sp in (54 model) and connecting the 3sp linkage to it, it was a total accident and a "wonder if this could be done" situation.
The original 235 6cyl stayed in the car, the stock 54 bell housing was replaced with a 55-57 style 6cyl bell housing, the drive line was converted to an open drive line with a 55 Chevy rear axle assembly.
As I remember (keep in mind I've slept since then) we rounded up some 3/8in steel rod and "fabricated new rods from the shifter box to the levers on the side cover. The tranny we installed in the 54 was actually an early T10. With some old fashioned American ingenuity, we got it all together and working----------------------AND NO REVERSE!! We eventually rounded up an Overdrive handle/cable and fabricated some attachment brackets that we bolted to the side cover bolts. Worked just fine. Push the OD knob forward to take it out of reverse, pull it back for reverse.

A few years later, a friend with a 55 Chevy was wanting to install a Muncie real bad that he had acquired (honestly, I think the Muncie came from the midnight auto parts). I mentioned to him about the 54 that we installed a 4sp in and that we retained the stock 3sp column shifter. He felt that was an excellent solution for him (plus, without a stick in the floor, it would not be obvious to anyone that he had a "questionably acquired" 4sp in his car. So we did the same thing. Fabricating the rods for the 4sp in the 55 was a little more challenging than it was for the 54. But we got it done and it worked fine.
In both cars the 1 to 2 shift was the best (moving the shifter handle from the reverse position straight down to 1st gear position), but that was the most important shift.
We did both of those back in the mid/late 60s. Haven't done one since.

 

[irishsteve]

Mercedes Benz did a column shift 4speed in the early 60"s.I would think you would loose the sharp clean shifts that a floor mount gives you.

 

[DavidY]

A four speed won't change the high revs at speed. You'll need a rear end swap to change that. You probably have a 3.55 now; a 3.36 will help, but your equivalent power in each gear will drop by about 5%.

The 4 speed on the column has been done many times. As mentioned just fabricate new shift rods and use a cable for reverse. There is a learning curve involved to remember that towards you and up isn't reverse any more, and that you must be in neutral before engaging reverse. And you can't let anyone else drive the car because the first time they try to back up they'll drive the car forward into a tree. You'll also have to learn to live with a relatively slow 2nd to 3rd shift.

 

[1946Model]

I never knew you could shift and overdrive without a clutch. I knew you let up on the gas and pushed it back down to shift into overdrive but I did not know you could do a 1st to 2nd and a 2nd to 3rd shift without a clutch.

 

[DavidY]

I never knew you could shift and overdrive without a clutch. I knew you let up on the gas and pushed it back down to shift into overdrive but I did not know you could do a 1st to 2nd and a 2nd to 3rd shift without a clutch.

You can do all that with a standard (non-overdrive) transmission.

 

[CamTra]

I personally don't know of any 4 speed that has a column shift. The shift column isn't set up for more than three and reverse anyway.

I would point out to you that no matter if it is a 3 speed or a 4 speed, top gear is generally 1:1 so your engine will still be turning at the same RPM.

I would suggest that you research a borg warner three speed overdrive transmission for your car. That is what I have in mine.

A little history. in the 50's automatic transmissions were in their infancy and they weren't very good. The BW overdrive was sort of a semi-automatic. The only time you have to step on the clutch is when you come to a dead stop. Otherwise you shift like normal but without the clutch. Not only that, when the tranny shifts into overdrive the reduction is about .75:1 On mine at 70mph I am turning 2100 RPM on the engine. I love it

They are a little hard to find and a little more pricey but you retain the three speed shifter on the column and it is totally original. Chevy offered them from the factory.

Gary

Thanks. This sounds exactly what I'm looking for!!

 

[kerrynzl]

I'll chime in here ,even though I'm a month late.

You'll need to raise the rear-end ratio to 3.08 [or 2.87] and use a wide ratio 4 speed like a "Z" Borg Warner ST10 [3.42/ 2.28/1.46/1.00] or a Saginaw 4 speed with 2 grooves on the input [3.11/2.20/1.47/1.00]

The Saginaw is better suited to a 3.08 rear and the BW ST10 to a 2.87 rear

The wide ratio gearboxes restore the lower overall ratios with a higher cruising rear end .Stock ratios a 2.95/1.68/1.00 with a 3.55 rear end



English MK3 Zephyrs have 4 speed column shift [the lever needs to be pulled outward to select reverse, which is forward and down]

I believe Chevy Vans of 65-69 vintage have 4 speed column shift [and 61-65 Corvair pickups] but these would be all getting rare.



You can modify the Tri-5 Column [This was done in New Zealand, so it is RHD]

"Find an extra offset lever, thin the section where the shifter tube engages on all three, Trim the column out a bit to let them fit.

On the shifter tube, grind a bit off the piece where the gear lever engages to allow it to extend a little further into the upper housing, giving slightly longer travel.

Narrow the key at the bottom of the shifter tube that engages into the 3 levers."

A Borg Warner ST10 /Muncie 4 speed can go into reverse while engaged in any forward gear. So for an econo-cruiser a Saginaw 4 speed would be a better choice [Saginaw's have a reverse safety detent that prevents 2 gears getting grabbed at once]

A Saginaw will generally survive with a column shift as power shifting isn't performed easily [Saginaw's are the same length, bolt pattern and input spline as the Muncie sm318, but the output/yoke will need changing to the common 27 spline]



I have considered a 5 speed column shift for my 57 using a Toyota Supra gearbox internals inside a Toyota Hiace van casing [they are the same series] and a modified column from a 1983 Hiace van

The Toyota Van column [and floor shift] uses 2 cables . 1 lever goes up/down and the other lever goes back/forward

 

[kerrynzl]

Here is a picture of a Chevy Van Column Shift

 

[DavidY]

You can modify the Tri-5 Column [This was done in New Zealand, so it is RHD]

"Find an extra offset lever, thin the section where the shifter tube engages on all three, Trim the column out a bit to let them fit.

On the shifter tube, grind a bit off the piece where the gear lever engages to allow it to extend a little further into the upper housing, giving slightly longer travel.

Narrow the key at the bottom of the shifter tube that engages into the 3 levers."

Very interesting idea. I assume the H-pattern is preserved with 1-2-3-4 and a longer pull back and up (or down?) engages reverse? One would have to be careful engaging 1 or 2 to assure the pull didn't go into the reverse lever. From your picture it looks like there are two standard shift levers for R, 3 and 4 with a straight shift lever for 1-2. Is that correct? You also say to narrow the key at the bottom of the shifter tube that engages into the 3 levers. Is that making it thinner widthwise, or shorter lengthwise?

You got me thinking... :hmmmm2:

 

[JimSerra]

1981-82 Firebird Trans-Am Iron or Alumn. case Super T-10, also in aftermarket.(Z-28 same 1980-82)

Pontiac F 305 ci. LG4 1981-82 first 3.42 second 2.28 third 1.46 fourth 1.00 Rev.-3.51 0 or 6 grove shaft Alu. 903 or Nod. Iron 904 production-7,058=1981

 

[Muncieman]

more on Muncie transmissions/Borg WarnerT-10

I'll chime in here ,even though I'm a month late.

You'll need to raise the rear-end ratio to 3.08 [or 2.87] and use a wide ratio 4 speed like a "Z" Borg Warner ST10 [3.42/ 2.28/1.46/1.00] or a Saginaw 4 speed with 2 grooves on the input [3.11/2.20/1.47/1.00]

The Saginaw is better suited to a 3.08 rear and the BW ST10 to a 2.87 rear

The wide ratio gearboxes restore the lower overall ratios with a higher cruising rear end .Stock ratios a 2.95/1.68/1.00 with a 3.55 rear end



English MK3 Zephyrs have 4 speed column shift [the lever needs to be pulled outward to select reverse, which is forward and down]

I believe Chevy Vans of 65-69 vintage have 4 speed column shift [and 61-65 Corvair pickups] but these would be all getting rare.



You can modify the Tri-5 Column [This was done in New Zealand, so it is RHD]

"Find an extra offset lever, thin the section where the shifter tube engages on all three, Trim the column out a bit to let them fit.

On the shifter tube, grind a bit off the piece where the gear lever engages to allow it to extend a little further into the upper housing, giving slightly longer travel.

Narrow the key at the bottom of the shifter tube that engages into the 3 levers."

A Borg Warner ST10 /Muncie 4 speed can go into reverse while engaged in any forward gear. So for an econo-cruiser a Saginaw 4 speed would be a better choice [Saginaw's have a reverse safety detent that prevents 2 gears getting grabbed at once]

A Saginaw will generally survive with a column shift as power shifting isn't performed easily [Saginaw's are the same length, bolt pattern and input spline as the Muncie sm318, but the output/yoke will need changing to the common 27 spline]



I have considered a 5 speed column shift for my 57 using a Toyota Supra gearbox internals inside a Toyota Hiace van casing [they are the same series] and a modified column from a 1983 Hiace van

The Toyota Van column [and floor shift] uses 2 cables . 1 lever goes up/down and the other lever goes back/forward

Can you elaborate on shifting a muncie and a BWt10 into reverse while going forward? I have never done it, never tried and never wanted to

 

[kerrynzl]

Can you elaborate on shifting a muncie and a BWt10 into reverse while going forward? I have never done it, never tried and never wanted to

Muncies and BW ST10's don't have safety detents on reverse gear because the lever and sliding gear are in the tailhousing.
They have safety detents inside the side cover for 1-4 only.

When assembling a muncie you can lock it into 2 gears at once if one of them is reverse gear [we do this to tighten the front input nut]

A good quality shifter usually has a reverse safety lockout lever, but a poor flogged out shifter can engage reverse and 1st when down shifting [ a road racing "money shift"]

 

[kerrynzl]

Very interesting idea. I assume the H-pattern is preserved with 1-2-3-4 and a longer pull back and up (or down?) engages reverse? One would have to be careful engaging 1 or 2 to assure the pull didn't go into the reverse lever. From your picture it looks like there are two standard shift levers for R, 3 and 4 with a straight shift lever for 1-2. Is that correct? You also say to narrow the key at the bottom of the shifter tube that engages into the 3 levers. Is that making it thinner widthwise, or shorter lengthwise?

You got me thinking... :hmmmm2:

The Key needs to be shortened lengthways [down the column length]
This is for the purpose of the middle lever only. So it doesn't move 2 levers together.

Last night I got thinking after my post about a reverse safety lockout.

You need to drill a hole in the outer column so a solenoid pin freely goes in it. [later a nut is welded on to screw it a lockout solenoid]
You put the gearlever into each gear one at a time [except reverse] .As you do this you run a drill through the outer tube drilling into the inner shifter tube.
You should have 4 x holes in the shifter tube.
Dismantle the column and cut the shifter tube from hole to hole making a square.
When reassembled with a solenoid pin in position the 4 gears can operate freely BUT you cannot pull back or push forward on the gear lever to get reverse because the solenoid pin prevents this.

The solenoid should be activated off the stoplights via a clutch pedal switch [in series]
And reverse gear should be "Forward and Down" beside 4th
[Top gear is the only gear you never use the brakes and clutch while shifting, whereas you do on other gears while downshifting into corners]

Done correctly ,the car would appear to be unmodified

 

[warpwr]

Here goes, I'm not the most mechanical person so please bare with me, I have a 56 Bel Air with an original 3 speed manual transmission on the column, my car has a 350 installed with it so it runs high rpms around 55 mph. I'd love to convert to a 4 speed manual on the column. My question is, is there such an animal as a 4 speed manual with a column shift that will fit my Chevy? If so, what type of upgrade, if any, will I need to do to my current column?

Save yourself a lot of column trouble and put in a Tremec 5 speed manual transmission. That will make your cruising RPMs seem perfect with a 3:70 rear end. The shifter will be on the floor and you can remove the column shift handle. Do you now have side motor mounts? You will need a transmission cross member, side motor mounts and maybe a new bell housing. Then probably modify the drive shaft end and length and the engine side clutch cross shaft pivot mount. See, nothing to it.
Or just find an original overdrive 3-speed as previously mentioned. I think those cars had 4:11 rear gears stock though.
And remember...once you start in on one of these beautiful tri-fives, you will never stop.