[pjs56]

Numerous threads about column and horn relays but, can't solve the hot relay question I'm having.
Trying not to be lengthy so here goes. AAW wiring part# 500423 which is the upgrade for Tri Fives.
This kit has all the circuits prewired at the fuse panel. The 3 wired horn relay is wired from the panel.
Green, red, and black female end just plug in relay and play right...wrong. Relay gets super warm and of course
draws the battery down. Bought a new relay same thing. I've replaced all the directional wiring, Column horn bearing and have a good ground. What's really odd is I can touch the copper outer of the bearing with my finger tip and the horn sounds. I can cross the same area with a screwdriver and it sounds. Don't see how that' s possible how a finger tip can do that. That's magic in my book. The green wire is new and checked with ohm meter for continuity and was ok.
Could the horn wire be bad ? Is there a better check to see if it is? I was very careful threading the wires down through
so as not to chafe them. The steering column is a shortened version from CCP and connects the wiring through
the two black harmonica looking connectors that GM used for in earlier years. Checked that for accuracy also. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

 

[Pops @ Tri-5.com]

I put that same wiring harness in my '55....Let me take a look at the diagram and see if I can help you...I suspect that there is a problem with the wiring on that "harmonica looking" connector.

Do your turn signals work as they should? Or have you not tried them yet?

 

[Pops @ Tri-5.com]

Sounds to me like you may somehow be getting +12V on that black wire of the turn signal switch (harmonica), instead of ground

 

[pjs56]

Sounds to me like you may somehow be getting +12V on that black wire of the turn signal switch (harmonica), instead of ground

View attachment 356909

Sounds to me like you may somehow be getting +12V on that black wire of the turn signal switch (harmonica), instead of ground

View attachment 356909

 

[Pops @ Tri-5.com]

Numerous threads about column and horn relays but, can't solve the hot relay question I'm having.

I see no reply from you pjs56 (Just my quotes)

You need to measure the voltage on pin G of the AAW turn signal connector

 

[55 Tony]

I'd take a guess that yes, something is mis-wired, but in such a way that the relay coil gets power but not close to 12 vdc so it's not pulling the coil in.
Simply put, the relay can't get hot unless the internal coil is getting power on a continuous basis. Something is giving it power but not enough to pull the relay in.
Unless, your horn is blowing all the time and the contacts have a poor connection but I certainly don't suspect that.

 

[pjs56]

Pops, sorry for the late reply, had some issues with the computer. I don't have the turn signals installed and working yet. I initially did all the cabin wiring early on and ran all the wiring to the front and rear. I taped off all those wires and the plan was when I got the car back from paint I would finish. On your attachment # 14 of the instructions it states dark green wire12 v lead from the relay to the front lamp connectors for the horns. I don't understand what the lamp connectors have to do with the horns. Is that something that contributes to my dilemma. I'll be in the garage later and get back to you on the voltage read of the black wire. Thank you both for the response.

 

[Pops @ Tri-5.com]

That green wire goes forward with the lamp connections harness, cause that's where the horns are located.

I will post an illustration later

 

[pjs56]

Okay then, that's not the problem associated with the relay?

 

[vich57]

With the relay disconnected, you should be able to measure the resistance between the horn relay's battery connection and the horn relay ground (the relay case).
It should read infinite (no continuity).
The same (infinite) between the horn relay's battery connection and the horn relay output (horn power feed).
There should be measurable resistance (perhaps very small) between the horn relay's battery connection and the horn relay's steering column ground wire connection.

If you connect the battery to the horn relay's battery connection and ground the horn relay case, there should be zero current and the relay should not get warm.
You should be able to confirm zero current by putting a multi-meter (on the current scale!) in series with the battery connection.
If you also ground the horn relay's steering column ground wire connection, the horn relay should audibly click, current will be drawn, and 12v should be applied to the horn relay output (horn power feed). After disconnecting the ground, the horn relay should click again, current should go back to zero, and the horn relay output should go back to zero volts.

Perhaps these generic diagrams will help?

 

[Pops @ Tri-5.com]

Okay then, that's not the problem associated with the relay?

Okay....Let's do this and see where it goes....Measure the voltages on the horn relay connector...The red wired terminal should have 12V,,,The other two should have 0V...Once you do that, disconnect the battery and measure resistance to ground at the black and green wired terminals

 

[RRRRRowdy]

Numerous threads about column and horn relays but, can't solve the hot relay question I'm having.
Trying not to be lengthy so here goes. AAW wiring part# 500423 which is the upgrade for Tri Fives.
This kit has all the circuits prewired at the fuse panel. The 3 wired horn relay is wired from the panel.
Green, red, and black female end just plug in relay and play right...wrong. Relay gets super warm and of course
draws the battery down. Bought a new relay same thing. I've replaced all the directional wiring, Column horn bearing and have a good ground. What's really odd is I can touch the copper outer of the bearing with my finger tip and the horn sounds. I can cross the same area with a screwdriver and it sounds. Don't see how that' s possible how a finger tip can do that. That's magic in my book. The green wire is new and checked with ohm meter for continuity and was ok.
Could the horn wire be bad ? Is there a better check to see if it is? I was very careful threading the wires down through
so as not to chafe them. The steering column is a shortened version from CCP and connects the wiring through
the two black harmonica looking connectors that GM used for in earlier years. Checked that for accuracy also. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

I might be missing something here, I installed the same AAW harness in my 55, the horn relay is built into the fuse panel I didn't need the relay in the engine compartment.

 

[pjs56]

So is mine from the panel.

 

[RRRRRowdy]

So is mine from the panel.

Sorry missed that part when I read it.

 

[55 Tony]

By any chance have you tried unplugging the turn signal (horn) connector to see if the relay still stays on? If not, give it a whirl. Maybe you can hear the relay clicking on and off when taking the plug in and out, and maybe not.

Then with the plug connected again, and the relay removed, try doing what ever you were doing that made the horn blow to see if it still does.

That should give us (me) some clues.

This may sound dumb, but are you certain it is the horn relay that is getting hot and not the 4 way flasher or another relay? I don't know how many relays you have.

 

[Pops @ Tri-5.com]

This may sound dumb, but are you certain it is the horn relay that is getting hot and not the 4 way flasher or another relay? I don't know how many relays you have.

Not such a dumb question Tony.

The fuse panel for the 55/56 AAW Classic Update harness has two relays....(At least on mine it was anyway)....One was for the turn signal and one for the flasher signal.

The horn relay is plugged into a separate plug that branches off from the dash harness.

 

[pjs56]

I sent Pops a reply yesterday on post #11 as to some voltages he was asking about but, don't see it here. I don't know why or what I'm doing wrong. I can resend that unless Pops can find it for me. And yes, Tony my A.A.W. is just like Pops. As to your 1st. paragraph I don't hear any clicking, second paragraph, the horn doesn't blow. I hope this will give us some clues. I pulled the horn wire bearing out far enough to inspect the soldered green wire connection thinking it was grounding out somehow. Looked fine to me. Really would like to find a solution. Patience level is a 12.8 volts LOL.

 

[55 Tony]

So if you don't hear a clicking of the relay when you connect and disconnect the turn signal plug, does the relay still get hot with the plug off? It's quite possible you simply don't hear it.

I'm asking these questions that may seem strange, but here is a possibility.

Your horn relay is staying energized due to the horn button touching ground (so the relay gets hot), and the horn should be blowing at that point, but it isn't. But the horn does blow when you mess with the horn button, even with just your finger. If that is correct, this would lead me to believe that your wire going to the horns is on the normally closed tab (NC) on the relay instead of the normally open tab AND your horn wire or button is shorting to ground. When you mess with the horn button, it actually looses it's ground connection, the relay turns off, and the horn blows. If your wire colors are correct, then I would look to see if the horn relay wires were put into the correct holes in the plug.
I would also check, with your turn signal plug disconnected, if there is continuity between the horn wire from the column to ground, and if it opens up when you play with the horn button.
For tests like that, even with 45+ years experience using multi meters, it is normally easier and more foolproof to use a test light. For that test, the wire and clip on the test light goes to 12 volts, and the probe to the plug connector horn wire to see if and when the light goes on and off. You can repeat that same test with the plugs connected.
I think I got that right, I'm overdue for my noon coffee.

 

[RRRRRowdy]

I sent Pops a reply yesterday on post #11 as to some voltages he was asking about but, don't see it here. I don't know why or what I'm doing wrong. I can resend that unless Pops can find it for me. And yes, Tony my A.A.W. is just like Pops. As to your 1st. paragraph I don't hear any clicking, second paragraph, the horn doesn't blow. I hope this will give us some clues. I pulled the horn wire bearing out far enough to inspect the soldered green wire connection thinking it was grounding out somehow. Looked fine to me. Really would like to find a solution. Patience level is a 12.8 volts LOL.

Don't know if you found you problem, but when I installed my AAW harness I had couple of questions. There tec support was very knowledgeable & helpful.

 

[pjs56]

I think I've found the problem. Will post after I get all assembled to be positive.