[Fonz69]

Ok, still getting Dads 57 nomad ready for my wedding day and the oem drum brakes pull really bad to the right.

I tried adjusting the star adjusters so there was just a little drag on each wheel with no better result

Tonight we jacked up the front end and spun each tire and then hit the brakes the right locks right away and the left you could turn by hand so we bleed the left one and it got allot better but after a run down the road it still does the same thing.

Ideas? Bleed the whole system or keep adjusting the front adjusters?

Now the steering has about 4" of play in the wheel and from what I could see its mostly coming from the pitman arm connection at the control rod. Maybe a little bit on the idler arm but not too bad.

I know nothing about all the springs and ball style setup on this so any help would be great. I did a frame off myself on my 69 vette so I just need some direction on this older setup and what tends to be the problems.

Does it need adjustment or a new spring and guts? Or does that ball end on the pitman wear out allot?

We are looking for a fix for now as Dad does not want it all torn apart right now or as he says "when its yours you can do what you want to it"

Thanks for all the help so far guys:cool0012:

 

[acardon]

One of the wheel cylinders may be leaking. Pull the drums and check for fluid on the shoes. The pitman arm end of the relay rod may be adjusted incorrectly. The spring should take up play as the ball wears. The adjustment is to tighten the slotted nut at the end of the relay rod all the way and then back off 3/4 turn plus to align the cotter pin in the slot. Drawing of relay rod end. ....http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/shop/1955/55csm0903.html

 

[Pops @ Tri-5.com]

Fonz....I believe you said in a previous post that the Nomad has been sitting for a long time.....If so, more than likely the wheel cylinders are badly corroded from sitting with the brake fluid in them.....I would pull all four wheels and inspect the brake cylinders.....Look for corrosion or signs of leakage.....Either one will cause you problems.....More than likely they are ate-up and need replacing.....As a matter of fact, after setting that long, I would probably replace them anyway.....Bad brakes are nothing to go half way on.

 

[Fonz69]

Fonz....I believe you said in a previous post that the Nomad has been sitting for a long time.....If so, more than likely the wheel cylinders are badly corroded from sitting with the brake fluid in them.....I would pull all four wheels and inspect the brake cylinders.....Look for corrosion or signs of leakage.....Either one will cause you problems.....More than likely they are ate-up and need replacing.....As a matter of fact, after setting that long, I would probably replace them anyway.....Bad brakes are nothing to go half way on.

I hear you on that for sure:tu

The pedal is firm and the front right locks up with only a little pressure on the pedal.

I was thinking of bleeding the whole system to start but the adjustment on the brakes had me wonder the right way to go about doing it?

It has been sitting allot but he said it has done this as far back as he could remember though.

 

[Fonz69]

One of the wheel cylinders may be leaking. Pull the drums and check for fluid on the shoes. The pitman arm end of the relay rod may be adjusted incorrectly. The spring should take up play as the ball wears. The adjustment is to tighten the slotted nut at the end of the relay rod all the way and then back off 3/4 turn plus to align the cotter pin in the slot. Drawing of relay rod end. ....http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/shop/1955/55csm0903.html

Thanks I will try that:tu

 

[Pops @ Tri-5.com]

I would not do another thing, until I knew the condition of the wheel cylinders....Also, if its been doing it forever, someone may have reversed the primary and secondary shoes a while back....The shoe with the most material goes on the rear at each wheel.....Another thing you won't know, until you pull the wheels for an inspection....Also, inspect the rubber hoses for deterioration.....They go bad over time as well.

 

[tmoble]

I'd have a hard look at the front A-arm bushings. upper and lower. worn bushings can cause the car to like dart around on the road when you hit the brakes.

look for brake fluid leaks on the side it pulls to. if brake fluid soaks the linings it'll cause nasty pulls to the side the leak is on.

 

[Fonz69]

I would not do another thing, until I knew the condition of the wheel cylinders....Also, if its been doing it forever, someone may have reversed the primary and secondary shoes a while back....The shoe with the most material goes on the rear at each wheel.....Another thing you won't know, until you pull the wheels for an inspection....Also, inspect the rubber hoses for deterioration.....They go bad over time as well.

The hoses looked newer and in good shape.

Thanks for the tip on the shoes being reversed I will have to look into that for sure!

Only so much time in the day, I am working 10 hour days with over a hour drive each way so the garage time at night is limited.

 

[Fonz69]

The pitman arm connection was a bit out of adjustment but now I am thinking that most of my problem is in the steering box itself.

When I turn the wheel the pitman arm does not move untill I feel resistance in the steering wheel.

I am going to look at the lash adjuster and see how much play is in there but I fear a new gear box might be in order:bawling:

Maybe the time has arived to install power steering?

 

[Had a few Tri 5's]

Please pull the drums off that thing and see if there is a leaky wheel cylinder, a blown out grease seal or a stuck wheel cylinder, backwards shoes or worn shoes (that one would be the opposite of the direction of pull) before you get too set on new steering boxes and so on. I have had boxes over the years with a whole lotta play and never really noticed the kind of pull you are speaking of. You will find wandering, the occasional road groove grab, maybe even a shimmy that won't stop until you slow, but not that much pulling when you apply the brakes.

 

[Fonz69]

I have 2 different problems going on and I plan to pull the brake drums asap and check to see if the pads are switched around.

The steering is another matter that magnifies the overall handling problems of the car.

With the wheels on the ground you can turn the steering wheel side to side and see the shaft turning into the grear box but the wheels do not turn and looking into it further the other night the pitman arm does not move either.

That is why I believe the steering box is at fault for the "steering problem"

Now add the braking problem and loose steering and it gets real fun to control the car under braking.

For example when you hit the brakes the car pulls hard to the right and when you go to react and try to correct it the play in the steering causes your reaction time to be greater then it would be if the steering was tight

Lots of new things on there way soon (new headers, plug wires, fuel sending unit, etc..) and I will try to take pics and post them after we get them done:cool0010:

 

[Fonz69]

Got all the brake drums off and everything looks ok. No leaks and the pads are on the correct way on all four.

Now if you push the brake pedal down with the drums off I noticed the only wheel cylinder that moves is the one that has been known to lock the wheel when you hit the brakes.....I would think that all the wheel cylinders would move at least a little when the brake pedal is pushed right?

I know they work because with the pedal pushed and tires on I could not turn the other ones.

Any ideas?

 

[Had a few Tri 5's]

Right.....

They should all move somewhat unless they are restricted. The easiest will move first, especially if you have an old stock master cylinder. They only had one line out to a distribution block. The one that gets the first flow is the left front.

You could try taking one drum off at a time and see if the one off moves. Most likely what you have is one up front with stuck wheel cylinder pistons. Keep in mind what you see or feel while turning a wheel by hand is different than what you get under load. If one cylinder is dragging it will mess up the works. You will have one cylinder that does not return properly and thus becomes the first to come out when you hit the brakes. It is actually somewhat of a coordinated effort. That is why if you have one shoe out of adjustment, you end up with similar results.

Older brake fluid has a propensity to accumulate water and it ends up in the wheel cylinders after time. The aluminum pistons corrode and get stuck.

At a minimum, while you are there, hone and rebuild the cylinders. Replacing them is not all too expensive either. Rears are like $15.00 ea and the fronts are like $35.00 ea. You can rebuild them if the bores are workable back to smooth without honing them too much and your pistons are not too corroded.

 

[Pops @ Tri-5.com]

Have you pulled back the rubbers on the wheel cylinders to see if they are leaking or corroded?

 

[Bravo77]

Replace wheel cylinders and your good to go...

 

[Pops @ Tri-5.com]

Replace wheel cylinders and your good to go...

Usually, I do it as a matter of course after a car has been sitting for so long.

 

[567chevy]

STEERING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH "BRAKE PULL"

Replace the left frt rubber brake hose.

Always check the opposite side brake components to the direction of pull.
In your case you know the right side is working.
That means , if you have a right pull, your left frt brake is not working because
1) Left Wheel cyl seized
2) Left wheel cyl massive leak
3) Lft grease hub grease seal leaking grease onto brake shoes
4) Lft frt brake hose plugged
5) Lft frt steel line kinked or pinched

This is all ssuming you have the stock brakes with the single master cyl ???
The hydraulic brake system is designed to apply the same amount of brake pressure at the same time to each wheel cyl.

Sometimes the inner lining of an old brake hose will break down causing a "Flapper" check valve efect. When brake pedal is applied, pressure is applied against the Flapper causing it to block fluid flow inside the hose, to the wheel cylinder.

As for steering box free play, adjust your steering box sector shaft.
If you look at the top of the steering box, you will see a slotted stud with a nut over it. Loosen the nut and with a screwdriver, turn the slotted stud to the right one quarter turn at a time to reduce the amount of free play in your steering box.

Check your service manual for proceedure.

NOTE: On a good steering box, The adjusting stud thread should protrude at least 1/2 inch past the nut. If the top of the stud sits flush with the top of the nut your box is worn out.

Good luck

 

[Fonz69]

STEERING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH "BRAKE PULL"

Replace the left frt rubber brake hose.

Always check the opposite side brake components to the direction of pull.
In your case you know the right side is working.
That means , if you have a right pull, your left frt brake is not working because
1) Left Wheel cyl seized
2) Left wheel cyl massive leak
3) Lft grease hub grease seal leaking grease onto brake shoes
4) Lft frt brake hose plugged
5) Lft frt steel line kinked or pinched

This is all ssuming you have the stock brakes with the single master cyl ???
The hydraulic brake system is designed to apply the same amount of brake pressure at the same time to each wheel cyl.

Sometimes the inner lining of an old brake hose will break down causing a "Flapper" check valve efect. When brake pedal is applied, pressure is applied against the Flapper causing it to block fluid flow inside the hose, to the wheel cylinder.

As for steering box free play, adjust your steering box sector shaft.
If you look at the top of the steering box, you will see a slotted stud with a nut over it. Loosen the nut and with a screwdriver, turn the slotted stud to the right one quarter turn at a time to reduce the amount of free play in your steering box.

Check your service manual for proceedure.

NOTE: On a good steering box, The adjusting stud thread should protrude at least 1/2 inch past the nut. If the top of the stud sits flush with the top of the nut your box is worn out.

Good luck

Good to know about the box as I have adjusted it only 1/8 turn more clockwise but it is allready in past the lock nut so I fear the box is done for.

There are no signs of leaks in the cylinders and the fluid is all new now as of a few days ago.

The front hoses are newer, but it might just need new wheel cylinders afterall

Now when its up on stands and someone pushes the brake all the wheels will not spin so something is working in the cylinders but not the same as the right front which will lock the wheel so hard while driving that it will drag and sqeek the tire at low speeds if the brakes are applied hard.

I will see if Dad wants to just install new wheel cylinders all around while we are this far

 

[awsum55]

I have a '63 Vette that has the same thing going on and I've replaced everything but the drums and it is still locking up the left rear tire. It's embarrassing huh? People hear the tire squeal and they figure you were driving too fast and had to lock up the brakes.

 

[Fonz69]

So we are looking into a new/rebuilt manual steering box now.

Is Danchuk the only good dealer that carries them? ($499)

Does anyone else have any good ideas or where we could buy a rebuild kit instead of buying a whole new box?

I know now would be the time to switch to power steering but Dad wants it back the way it was just fixed.